Historical sites you’ve been to or want to go to thread

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

So, there was a documentary about The Rolling Stones on Netflix that I watched. It was some kind of festival. It was like the last festival of the 1960s. It took place in 1969, and some guy high on something had a knife, and some motorcycle gang killed him at the concert. Apparently, Mick Jagger didn’t know what was happening, but later saw it on a tape. They had hired the biker gang for security but didn’t know they’d end up killing someone. Does anyone here remember when that happened? Did they show it on the news?

The 60s was already chaotic, and that festival really ended the 60s, highlighting how bad and violent that decade was. My mom told me the 60s was a bad decade, but it was prosperous, unlike now.

The movie was probably "Gimme Shelter", addressing the killing at Altamont in 1969. I don't remember if it was on the news, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't. I saw the movie, but honestly? I can't remember much about it. I was never a Stones fan, and that solidified it.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by carnation

My husband might agree to go with me next summer. There are a lot of Plantagenet and Stewart/Douglas sites I want to visit.

Oh, I hope y'all go! You really need to investigate your roots, if you can!

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Wait.. so, honeychile, call me dumb, but was that you or someone else who wrote that letter? I read this like, three times, trying to figure out who wrote it. And then, I listened to “Starting Over” a few times until I could hear the announcement in the background. It’s very faint. Ya know, in all the years I’ve listened to that song, I never could hear that part until you mentioned it now. Maybe I heard it, and just didn’t pay attention. I almost feel really awkward asking who wrote the letter. Either way, I was just amazed that the two are connected. After reading this several times, and then listening to the song, it’s like really amazing how he acknowledged the letter in the song. After reading your post, it’s more than obvious he was responding to that letter. Such an amazing story. Thank you for posting this, honeychile. I never knew this was posted before.

I wrote the letter, standing exactly where John collapsed after being shot. How I wish I had a copy of it!

[carnation]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

True, and I see what you’re saying, carnation. It just seems like with Vietnam going on, and all the really important leaders in the US at the time were being assassinated, it just appeared to be really chaotic. I wish I could have lived back then and lived that history, the music especially. It just seems like music from that time period (the late 60s into the early 70s) had noticeable overlaps? It just seems like the transition back then seemed to reflect changes in societal moods. I mean, you’d know better than I would, but it just seems like the Vietnam War was a huge factor in the late 60s. I also think losing Bobby Kennedy was a major turning point. And then the hippies and the experimental generation of the early 70s seemed to have calmed things down. The music in the early 70s compared to the late 60s just seemed like it reflected that.

Originally Posted by Phrozen Sands

I wasn’t around in the 60s either, but the differences I’ve notice between the chaotic mess of now vs. back then is folks started movements and not moments. A moment last a few days to a week, and then as soon as folks start losing something of value, they stop protesting and go back to their everyday lives.

Back in the 60s, folks protested and kept protesting until they saw changes. For example, I’ll use these mass school shootings. As soon as a shooting on a large scale happens, students do these short-term walkouts, but then come back to school two days later. If you’re going to protest, don’t come back to school until they do something about the damn guns. I’d even go as far as not paying property taxes to add to a movement. Yeah, you could lose your property and you might have to homeschool your kid, but if a movement like that was done on a mass scale, it couldn’t be ignored. They’d have to submit. But the downside of it, sacrifices would have to be made. You’d have to give something up. Folks won’t make sacrifices like that today. They would in the 60s, though.

See...a lot of those protests, probably most, petered out or were just for show. Friends at northern universities would get really mad because a big group of protesters would block a campus building or cause classes to be canceled because of the danger. After a few days, the cops would clear them out and arrests would be made and it would be discovered that most of the protesters weren't even students there.

A lot of times, they were for ridiculous things, like "students shouldn't have required courses" or "this campus should immediately be replanted as a forest", etc., and the media bought into it and filmed it. Some turned out to be very dangerous; my husband's cousin was caught on the Kent State campus in the middle of those shootings.

However, I would say that there wasn't any more "dedication to the cause" than there is now. Most people weren't going to sacrifice their homes or lives to a cause any more than they do now. I know what it seems like! The media have recreated the 60s and 70s as romantic times when anything was possible and huge causes were followed and youth prevailed.

In reality: it was no different from life today.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Thanks for asking! The original link doesn't work, here's the article that was in the PG-Press:


So, it wasn't my imagination! If you listen to the very end of "Starting Over" (about 3:24 in the song) you can hear it, and it was confirmed by Yoko Ono herself! To this, I have never met a Beatle, but, as the man said, I may have gotten the best part of the deal!"

What an incredible story!

Originally Posted by Phrozen Sands

I wasn’t around in the 60s either, but the differences I’ve notice between the chaotic mess of now vs. back then is folks started movements and not moments. A moment last a few days to a week, and then as soon as folks start losing something of value, they stop protesting and go back to their everyday lives.

Back in the 60s, folks protested and kept protesting until they saw changes. For example, I’ll use these mass school shootings. As soon as a shooting on a large scale happens, students do these short-term walkouts, but then come back to school two days later. If you’re going to protest, don’t come back to school until they do something about the damn guns. I’d even go as far as not paying property taxes to add to a movement. Yeah, you could lose your property and you might have to homeschool your kid, but if a movement like that was done on a mass scale, it couldn’t be ignored. They’d have to submit. But the downside of it, sacrifices would have to be made. You’d have to give something up. Folks won’t make sacrifices like that today. They would in the 60s, though.

I think the Occupy movement was most similar. People camped out in large areas and there was a lot of support for them. But I don't think the protests in the 60s changed anything at all either. We continued in Vietnam for years, segration and racism continued, etc.

Originally Posted by carnation

See...a lot of those protests, probably most, petered out or were just for show. Friends at northern universities would get really mad because a big group of protesters would block a campus building or cause classes to be canceled because of the danger. After a few days, the cops would clear them out and arrests would be made and it would be discovered that most of the protesters weren't even students there.

In reality: it was no different from life today.

That was not the experience in Detroit. The riots of '67 destroyed the city for decades.

When my daughter was living in D.C., we took a Big Bus Tour to be able to see all the highlights quickly in the very short time we had while I was helping her get settled there. At the end of a route, they had us disembark that bus and get on a different one after a 20 minute break or so. So we're sitting on a step at this hotel and I'm thinking "I've seen this place before, but I've never been to D.C. Why do I know this?" I saw there was a plaque on the wall so I went over to read it and it was the location of the Reagan assassination attempt. I had seen that video footage over and over that day and in the weeks that followed, so it was a familiar place to me.

I can't think of particular historic places in the US I'd like to go except maybe Gettysburg and Salem. There are so many places in the UK- like the Tower of London, Westminster Abbey, etc. I love all the castles and cathedrals in the UK.

[PrettyBoy]

I’ve seen most of the automotive historical sites I’ve always wanted to see due to the fact that I went to school in Detroit and lived in Michigan for several years. The school I went to itself is a historical automotive/industrial design school. That was a treat. Hard work, but still a blessing to be accepted there. I’ve been to Le Mans in France several times, but I still have not been to Modena, Italy to see the old Ferrari factory, and also Sant’ Agata, Italy to see the Lamborghini old factory and museum. I also would enjoy seeing the Aston Martin factory and museum in GB, along with the Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, and BMW factories and museums in Germany.

With the other conversation on this thread, I’ll have to respectfully disagree that the 60s are the same as today. I didn’t live in the 60s, wasn’t even thought of, but my parents did. Based on the stories they’ve told me and what I’ve seen in media compared to now, it’s night and day. To them and to me, today is much darker. As my dad always said “Folks today don’t have a lick of sense.”

Whether people have changed fundamentally over the past 60-years or whether they have gotten worse, depends on the lens through which you view human behavior. To me, I have never in my life seen the foolishness that I see today. The violence is unheard of. 5 and 6-year old children getting killed at school in mass, etc. and nobody does a damn thing about it.

However, I do think at our core, human behavior remains largely the same — we seek connection, purpose, and survival. But circumstances, societal pressures, and cultural shifts have influenced how we express those needs. I also think with the constant use of smartphones and the internet, that in itself has profoundly changed how people interact, think, and spend their time. With that, it’s led to less face-to-face communication, and for some, a sense of disconnection.

IMO, today is darker and people seem worse in many ways due to the magnifying of technology and social media, which highlights both the best and worst of humanity. But I do believe the core of human nature —our capacity for love, creativity, and connection does remain the same.

[Phrozen Sands]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

I’ve seen most of the automotive historical sites I’ve always wanted to see due to the fact that I went to school in Detroit and lived in Michigan for several years. The school I went to itself is a historical automotive/industrial design school. That was a treat. Hard work, but still a blessing to be accepted there. I’ve been to Le Mans in France several times, but I still have not been to Modena, Italy to see the old Ferrari factory, and also Sant’ Agata, Italy to see the Lamborghini old factory and museum. I also would enjoy seeing the Aston Martin factory and museum in GB, along with the Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, and BMW factories and museums in Germany.

With the other conversation on this thread, I’ll have to respectfully disagree that the 60s are the same as today. I didn’t live in the 60s, wasn’t even thought of, but my parents did. Based on the stories they’ve told me and what I’ve seen in media compared to now, it’s night and day. To them and to me, today is much darker. As my dad always said “Folks today don’t have a lick of sense.”

Whether people have changed fundamentally over the past 60-years or whether they have gotten worse, depends on the lens through which you view human behavior. To me, I have never in my life seen the foolishness that I see today. The violence is unheard of. 5 and 6-year old children getting killed at school in mass, etc. and nobody does a damn thing about it.

However, I do think at our core, human behavior remains largely the same — we seek connection, purpose, and survival. But circumstances, societal pressures, and cultural shifts have influenced how we express those needs. I also think with the constant use of smartphones and the internet, that in itself has profoundly changed how people interact, think, and spend their time. With that, it’s led to less face-to-face communication, and for some, a sense of disconnection.

IMO, today is darker and people seem worse in many ways due to the magnifying of technology and social media, which highlights both the best and worst of humanity. But I do believe the core of human nature —our capacity for love, creativity, and connection does remain the same.

Well said, PB. I couldn’t agree more. Facts!

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I wrote the letter, standing exactly where John collapsed after being shot. How I wish I had a copy of it!

So, I have that song on my phone in my iTunes, and now whenever it plays, I know I won’t listen to it the same way I always have, like a normal song I like on my iTunes. honeychile, your post is such an amazing story that I’ll always listen to that song differently. I can now say I chatted with the person that influenced parts of that song. Thank you for sharing that.

Originally Posted by carnation

See...a lot of those protests, probably most, petered out or were just for show. Friends at northern universities would get really mad because a big group of protesters would block a campus building or cause classes to be canceled because of the danger. After a few days, the cops would clear them out and arrests would be made and it would be discovered that most of the protesters weren't even students there.

A lot of times, they were for ridiculous things, like "students shouldn't have required courses" or "this campus should immediately be replanted as a forest", etc., and the media bought into it and filmed it. Some turned out to be very dangerous; my husband's cousin was caught on the Kent State campus in the middle of those shootings.

However, I would say that there wasn't any more "dedication to the cause" than there is now. Most people weren't going to sacrifice their homes or lives to a cause any more than they do now. I know what it seems like! The media have recreated the 60s and 70s as romantic times when anything was possible and huge causes were followed and youth prevailed.

In reality: it was no different from life today.

I think if I lived back then, I don’t know if I’d recognize the gradual changes, maybe with an exception of a few.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by honeychile

The movie was probably "Gimme Shelter", addressing the killing at Altamont in 1969. I don't remember if it was on the news, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't. I saw the movie, but honestly? I can't remember much about it. I was never a Stones fan, and that solidified it.

I missed this one. Yes, that’s it, honeychile. It was so sad that happened at what could have been a fun event. Oh, and I love The Stones. They’re one of my favorite bands of the 60s.

[*winter*]

There is a public housing museum in Chicago. I’d love to see that, since I’ve read tons on the history (particularly in Chicago, too).

There Are No Children Here by Alex Koltowitz
Cabrini Green in Images and Words
High Risers by Ben Austen

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by *winter*

There is a public housing museum in Chicago. I’d love to see that, since I’ve read tons on the history (particularly in Chicago, too).

There Are No Children Here by Alex Koltowitz
Cabrini Green in Images and Words
High Risers by Ben Austen

Never heard about it, so I googled it. Sounds fascinating!

[honeychile]

Carnation, when my brother got home from Vietnam, he took me to a Vietnam Veterans Against the War concert at Point State Park. While he & his wife were getting high, I wandered off and ended up behind the stage. Everyone was much too high to really protest, but it was a good concert! I met Peter Stookey and John Kay of Steppenwolf, who were just hanging around. They asked me my name, and I was so shy, I stuttered my name!

[Zach]

I’d like to see the MLK, Jr. National Historic Park, the African American History museum (again.. I’ve been), and I’d like to do some traveling around the south to see some of the plantations that are still standing. There’s also the barn that Emmett Till was beaten and killed in that I want to see.