[The Cushite]

Hello All, it's me again, Blackwatch. I have been very busy lately with a new job and new ministry responsibilies at my church, so forgive my lack of posts, but trust that my love is for My Fraternity and the beautiful brothers and sisters of the GC fam.

I have been reading this thread with particular interest, seeing as though I am A Christian and a brother of Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity, Inc. This question of whether or not one can truly be "saved" and in a fraternity is I think on some level loaded because you have to first define terms. Different people have different definitions for "saved". Some people think that saved simply means that you are in a loving relationship with God, other cite Rom. 10:9-10 and say that some type of public confession has to take place, others say that baptism has to happen, then yet others will cite passages in Acts to say that you must be baptised in the Holy spirit, as evidenced by speaking in Tongues. Others may have more definitions, but these are the most common ones.

Then there is the question of the nature of your relationship in being a brother/sister of a BGLO (before we go on, I would like to state emphatically that Alpha Phi Alpha is not a greek letter org. -peep Stolen Legacy by George James- but for the sake of argument I am including my dear fraternity among those classified as BGLO's). Do you view the BGLO as a spiritual/ worshipful entity in as much as you have devoted you mind heart and soul to a diety it has set up? Does the BGLO replace or at least answer some fundamental questions about life, life's purpose, and creaton in general? In other words, has your BGLO become your religion? Does your BGLO conflict with your understanding of righteousness? Does it (as an organization) officially sanction some activity or moral code that is totally contrary to your understanding of righteousness, love, and faith? Does it denounce the God of "our weary tears" and the "God of our silent tears" that has brought "us thus far on the Way"? ( My ode to Black History Month :-) ) If so , than denounce (I would wonder why one would join in the first place). But, the last time I checked, none of the Divine 9 orgs. ever told anyone to do anything that would deny the God that they believe in, nor to do something immoral or against SOUND DOCTRINAL teachings of the scriptures (if anyone wants to take me to task about swearing oaths and Mat. 5:33-37 please PM me). Now, individuals in the orgs have done some wild things, but so have individuals within the church, so does that mean we shouldn't associate with the church?

Iconoclast, I tend to agree with the poster that noted that your method of "wining souls" for Christ probably "needs some work". You cannot force morality on people, nor can you scare someone to love God. I think that people who try to "win souls" this way are theologically and ministerilly lazy. One should try to convince the person you are trying to reach by simply posing an argument that is so ironclad that they arrive at the only reasonably sound position, yours. Your arguments so far are falling on def ears because they are not sound, both theologically and apologetically. For example, you are saying that by simply being in a BGLO, a person cannot truly be Christian. This doesn't make since because you are saying that there is something that can seperate a willing person from the Grace of God (Check Rom 8 :35-38 for a rebuff of that notion). You also assert that since someone holds a different opinion on a subject (Your reference to Bishop Vashti McKenzie), they are not of the kingdom as well. Is there any room for any opinion other than yours in the Kingdom? Who's Kingdom is it anyway?
Your scripture references are poorly extricated. You quote Eph. 5:11 about exposing darkness with the truth, yet let's look at this passage in context. Paul is writing to the people of Ephesus, a town in present day Turkey that was a trade route and a gateway to the eastern half of the Roman empire. This caused Ephesus to really be inundated with many ideas about life, God, and religion. One of those ideas concerning religion was sex as idol worship in temples devoted to other "gods". In the midst of this, Paul admonishes the Ephesian church to not live like everyone else, who worship god through their flesh, not the spirit. The "fruitless deeds of darkness"(5:11) concern doing the things that those who do not know the truth would do, cautioning believers to live as if they know better (so to speak). Now, does this have anything to do with BGLO's? Are BGLO's religious orgs? Are they advocating temple sex? Other forms of hedonism? I think not. We as believers, if we are sincerely devoted to spiritual growth and ministry, must be more devoted to responsible biblical teaching and application. We must be careful to not take scriptures out of context. The proper application of a text like this would prbably sound more like this: , "you know better, so live your life like you know better, don't believe in God the way those do that do not know the truth. Be more of an advocate for understanding what you believe and live in that understanding."

Does this scripture require those Christians in BGLO's to denounce simply because of the "Teachings" of the BGLO's? Honestly, I didn't know the Divine 9 had teachings and sages and an official philosophy on God (Doctrines, worship rituals, laity, etc.). Now, does this stop individuals from being influened by the principles that the orgs. expouse? Not at all, but , last time I checked, none of the orgs have posited themselves as religions, destined to do the work of "Satan". Any view of these orgs that surmises this conclusion is purly THE OPINION of the person holding it. So if someone else disagrees, you have to convince them (not condemn them because your arguement doesn't hold up) of the TRUTH of your stance, if there is any truth in it.
Just my 06 cents worth,
Blackwatch!!!!!!