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Originally posted by newbie:
OK, I don't understand then--what IS a deterrent then? Nick, I thought that retribution DID contribute to a crime decrease in California?
Obviously, our system is not working currently. Though there IS a decrease in crime, still, I don't think it is enough. I don't think it's fair that so many criminals that have killed many/raped, whatever, are allowed mostly to spend their life in prison...with access to many priviledges such as card games, TV, food, family visits, teleophone calls, etc.
Why the hell (pardon me) do they get these priviledges (even though they must earn theese priviledges first) when they have done something so unhuman, brutal?
I don't think the death penalty is used enough...if it was, maybe criminals would be less likely to commit crimes if they knew for sure that the gas chamber/electric chair would be waiting for them. Instead, the majority of criminals get access to exercise, TV, etc. when they truly don't deserve it. And also bail, parole, and the possibility (though rare) of escape from prison.
I'm not saying that ppl who stole cars, dealt drugs, etc. should get the death penalty--I mean those who killed should also be killed.
I understand that some criminals DO change, and after therapy/religion they become a changed person. But most don't...and they get out of prison, commit the same crimes, end up in prison yet AGAIN, and cost us even more money...
Sorry if I don't make any sense...I'm kinda tired. Also, I learned some facts from my Soc class about the high cost of keeping these criminals in the prisons--and it was shocking. Some crazy percentage is zapped from our taxes. But I don't have the numbers on me right now, and also, I'm not a Soc major...this is from a class that I just finished taking in HS.
[This message has been edited by newbie (edited June 07, 2001).]
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You seem to think that people commit crimes by thinking about the consequences first. It NEVER happens regardless of what the consequences are. I walk in on my wife having sex with my brother and I might just shoot someone (mind you I am not married, have no brother, and can't even watch a deer get shot). You paint a picture much too rosey as well for jail - something someone could easily do because they heard it somewhere, not because they were there to see it. What you're talking about are the minimum security facilities and you have to understand that people imprisoned there commited white-collar crimes, not a brutal rape/murder. A high security penitentiary provides prisoners with a great deal of punishment including an incredibly high rate of brutal beatings and rapings at the hands of fellow inmates and prison gangs while guards turn a blind eye (search NY Times National section regarding the astonishing number of prison rape). And on top of that, prison has also changed the economic system; many prisoners do work at cheaper rates on top of providing restitution to their victims as well as providing cheap labor for the government.
And here's something to think about. By and large if you support capital punishment, you are condemning anyone who dies to death because of your support. (I believe all those nifty little trials after WWII determined that Hitler's supporters were just as guilty as he was even if they knew they'd be shot if they resisted his views.) So now we have established you are involved in sentencing someone to death. Now let's think about how many people have been given the death sentence undeservingly. In fact let's look at condemnation of the US by countries aross the world for executing those who commit crimes before reaching the age of adulthood and executing those deemed to be mentally handicapped. On top of that every year there are many prisoners released when somehow a new piece of evidence comes forth clearing them...what about those that weren't so lucky? There has to statistically be at least one so called "outlier". And statistically, certain groups and gender receive the death penalty much more than others. Well I seem to have digressed, but let's say someone innocent is executed tomorrow. By international law, you are guilty of murder and by your own views, murderers should be executed.
And you are definitely wrong about the costs of execution. They are much higher than keeping a prisoner locked up. To this day, the UN and most countries condemn us for using the death penalty. To this day other countries that do use the death penalty such as China condemn us for killing children. Sometimes when everyone in the world is telling you something, you may want to re-examine your policies.
And I don't feel you should take this to mean I am a liberal. On the contrary, I am from a very conventional Republican family and I do consistently vote on the Republican ballot. My personal view is that the death penalty should be abolished and prisons should become even more "uninviting". I do believe in corporal punishment though to some extent and feel that does get more results.
There are also many theories on crime and murder. One of the prevailing ones is centered on a natural "momentum". It's been shown in NYC that while crime numbers do come down, they level off at a point and can't be decreased. This means that other alternatives should be considered (ie, a better effort to reach out to someone and help them before they become even more criminal minded).