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Old 04-05-2001, 01:18 AM
Jeff OTMG Jeff OTMG is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Oklahoma City and Austin, TX
Posts: 208
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Lil_G, sorry I don't mean to offend. I gave out personal info and filled out my profile here much more completely than I see others do. Is there justification for the paranoia? If you have not met people who have introduced themselves to you via computer BB's you may be missing out. I am meeting 50 posters from other boards I go to this Sunday in Tulsa, Ok. I have met people from the BB's all over Indiana, Texas, Oklahoma, Kentucky, Tenneessee, and Missouri in the last 4 years. All those people have guns as well. That was just curiosity. Now for your comments.

You state, 'There is a correlation with guns and violent crime.' I will say that that may appear to be so, but no causal relationship can be shown where guns 'cause' people to act in a violent manner. The gun is an inanimate mechanical object, much like a car, neither are the cause of a behavior. As an example I ask that you look to our prison system. Nowhere in within the walls of any U.S. Federal or state prison are there any firearms. Not even on the guards. Yet if you look at the behavior of the people incarcerated you will find it to be EXTREMELY violent. If, as you state, there is a correlation, how do you explain the violence in prisons where there is a lack of firearms? Where is the correlation you speak of?

You state, 'The US homicide rate is by far the highest of any first-world country.' Why do you only include first world countries? Are not people of all countries humans with the same capacity of logic, intelligence, and emotion? If you leave out part of the populations I suspect that you do so due to the cultural differences of those populations. This is precisely the problem we face in the U.S. Our culture is far different than that of any other nation on Earth. The settlement of the land was the result of violent campaigns against native americans, the declaration of the U.S. as an independent country resulted in a war with England, another was fought with them in 1812, fifty years later we were killing each other in the bloodiest time in our history. I do not mention other lesser known wars and battles as occurred at the Alamo. These don't even get us out of the 1800's. I will say it is a cultural issue for us and we are a violent people.

Japan does have a relatively low crime rate, but again, look at their culture. Very restricted, based on tradition. Look also to their population, no ethnic diversity. They look like they all came from the same mold and act the way their society molded them. I would like to point out that for an amazing lack of firearms, a bit more easy to enforce a ban for an island nation, their suicide rate is more than double that of the U.S. They have a few more suicides, but one-half of our population with no guns. I believe that you will also find Switzerland extremely low as well yet all men over the age of 21 have a full auto assault rifle (SIG 550's but they have recently upgraded) in the home provided by the government. If the Swiss society were prone to violence, it would be easy to act on it with the widespread availability of military weapons by the average male citizen.

Responding to you comment about the accessibility of firearms doing more harm than good, it falls on deaf ears here. Twice in 1989 (Jan and Nov) I used a handgun to save myself from becoming a mugging vicitm in New Orleans and prevented my girlfriend from being abducted by five men from a Ft Worth gas station. In neither instance was it necessary to shoot, but without the firearm I and my girlfriend would have become victims. As part of your studies I recommend 'More Guns, Less Crime' by John Lott, the Wright-Rossi report which I am sure is part of your courses already, and all writings by criminologist Gary Kleck of Florida State University.

Nick, you are correct that kids don't shoot kids at school in other countries, but in China it was a soldier that shot up a school. The thing is that it didn't happen here either when I was in school. Prior to 1968 you could mail order guns delivered to your door. When I was nine years old, 1966, I would ride my bicycle about one-half mile to the 7-11 (a convienience store) and by ammunition for my rifle. In the mid-1970's I would take guns to school, they stayed in the car, so my friends and I could go shoot after classes. In rural areas it was not uncommon for kids to leave their guns in their lockers or principals office so they could hunt after school. With that easy availability of guns and ammunition by children, there was no problem. Now there is a problem and guns are more restricted than ever. I say that it isn't the guns, something else changed.
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