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Old 09-02-2004, 03:55 PM
RACooper RACooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ktsnake
Wasn't the point of the IRA to take Ireland back from the Protestants? Weren't they bombing Protestant targets? Correct me if I'm wrong here, you're a fellow citizen of the Commonwealth with them, so what was it?


That was only part of it... much like the Chechans(sp) want autonomy from a state that is religiously and ethincally different. The goal of the IRA was partially to "liberate" the Catholics being oppressed by protestants. However underlying all of this is a strong undercurrent of Irish nationalism, and to a lesser extent cultural/ethinic tension... as the Protestants in the north were "imported" by the English to help them secure the land centuries ago. So there was a number of attacks directed at "Protestant" targets (leading to tit-for-tat between the IRA and the Provos), but most targets were of the "English" authority or colloboraters... to weaken support or infastructure.

Quote:
I believe you're glossing over my question without answering it. So if these people do these things in the name of their Muslim religion, doesn't that make them Muslims? Sure, not great Muslims or even sane Muslims in the eyes of some of their fellows, but still Muslims.


Yes some are doing these acts solely in the name of their perversion of religion... however we and most practicsioners of the religion realise that they adhere to a perverted form of the faith. So yes they are Muslims, in much the same way that members of the KKK are Christian, or Hitler was Catholic...

Quote:
I still remember that video of people dancing in the streets in Palestinian controlled territory after hearing about the WTC attacks. Are they not Muslims?


Maybe... could also be Coptic Christians. Okay lets say they were Mulsim... was their celebration motivated by anti-Christian feelings or by anti-American feelings? Or more likely they were celebrating that Israel's main backer and ally had been attacked... so I'd say a fair bit of anti-Israeli feelings motivated them....

Quote:
I stated that the only fair way to decide whether someone was Muslim or not would be to ask them. If they consider themselves Muslim, then they are. Would you be so arrogant as to think you could devise a better test? So many viewpoints exist on the interpretation of their scriptures that it boggles the mind. Because their interpretations are often different, does that make someone more or less a Muslim based on their interpretation?


Well yes if the identify themselves as Muslims, that is what we the world will percieve them as... however it imperative to realise that they may not be acting based solely on their religious denomonation. It is important to keep that perspective, and even more important to not simplfy or dumb-down the issue of their religion. We need to always bear in mind that those terrorists motivated by religious fanatism are religious fantatics, not simply followers of that religion.

Quote:
If a Catholic is "more right" in their approach to their religion than a Baptist, does that make the Catholics Christian and the Baptists not?

The IRA was/is a Catholic terrorist organization because they target others based on their religion. They operate based on a creed of nationalist/religious material not unlike these folks in the Middle East and Chechnia (sp).


Well Catholics percieve themselves as the "right" interpretation of the Christian faith... however they do acknowledge that the Protestant religions are adherents of Christ and therefore Christians... just misguided.

The IRA didn't solely chose their targets based on religion... but many other factors... just as the Provos solely target Catholic targets. The problem is arises that if we believe that this (religion) is the sole reason behind an attack, we don't understand the enemy and therefore can't effectively counter the enemy. Much like the IRA the terrorists/insurrgents in Chechnya are at their most basic motivated by revenge, politics, ethnic/culture, history, and religion...

Quote:
When we take all terrorist activity into account and notice that 99% of it is perpetrated by people claiming a certain faith, that should certainly be enough to turn your head. You're saying that it isn't. Please explain.
99% of terrorist activity world-wide isn't perpertrated by followers of the Islamic faith... I'd say it's closer to 33% at best. Unless a lot has changed in the past year the greatest contributors to terrorist acts are still fanatical Communists (such as the Shining Path). Political Ideology terror has always been the largest percentage of terror since the turn of the last century, Nationalist terror acts usually took second, but now Religion has started to make a comeback as a source of terrorists - ironically roughly corresponding to the decline of the USSR.
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