[DeltAlum]

Rudey, et al,

Actually, I know a fair amount about the National Security Agency and it's electronic surveilance. Interestingly, I don't have much of a problem with that, because it is a mass undertaking. My problem is when individual people or groups are targeted simply because someone is suspicious that they might not agree with the government.

I'm not talking about the Weather Underground, I'm talking about groups as mundane as the Salvation Army.

Second, I have absolutely no problem with infiltrating terrorists groups -- who are destroying the cities in acts of violence -- not demonstrators.

It is a violent world -- we all know it -- but there are still certain tenants that should not be broken.

I'm afraid some of them are.

As for President Bush not being Richard Nixon, well, I've not been totally impressed with the waffling on things said before and after the war -- and now regarding when Iraq will or won't be self governing, etc.

Of course, it will take a long time (God forbid it should happen) for the casualities to mount to the level of Vietnam, but there are parts of this conflict which are very similar, not the least of which is trying to form a democratic government in a place where not everyone wants one. We've always had trouble with that concept. We believe (I certainly do) that the United States is the best place in the world to live and that our system is the best. Not everyone agrees.

Our military was magnificent in the "set piece" part of this war. They're not at nearly such an advantage in a guerilla type conflict. It was the same in Vietnam.

What is scary is that so many of the things that are happening, and that we are hearing are the same as it was during the Vietnam era. If you will look back at some of the threads from the early part of this war, you will see that I was worried about that then.

Having said all of that, what worries me as much as anything is that our national will will crumble with mounting casualities, and we will force a government on Iraq that is not ready to govern, and then pull out of Iraq and make them take power before they're ready, and that ten years from now, we'll be in the same mess.

It was political implications of Vietnam that in many ways ended both the Nixon and Johnson terms as President. Frankly, I hope that President Bush doesn't buckle to the political pressures.

As for the "non-violent" activities of the 60's and 70's, please don't forget about ROTC buildings being burned to the ground, bombings, etc. I remeber Athens, Ohio with a National Guardsman with rifles and fixed bayonets standing at every second parking meter. I was there.

They weren't nearly as bad, obviously, as the World Trade Center, but people did die or were injured. There were excesses on both sides.

And finally, remember Kent State where several students who were not involved in the demonstration -- and in fact not really in the vicinity -- were killed. I was working as a TV director an hour away from Kent and had friends there.

Our defense is very important, but not at the infringement of our civil rights.

Really, my main concern is this: Organizations like the FBI, IRS, and CIA -- whom I admire most of the time -- can get carried away. Again, it's the old "give them an inch..." syndrome.

I truly hope that I'm over-reacting to this situation -- but they say that history repeats itself and it certainly sounds to me as if that is a possibility in this case.

(I don't know if you can view the threads without subscribing -- but the NY Times online subscription is free)