[navane]

Originally posted by valkyrie
I'm still going to have to agree with breathesgelatin. It sounds like the women in this documentary were a little too defensive. The fact is that even though they claim to be educated and skilled, they are completely dependent upon men to "rescue" them from Russia. I think that's awful, and I don't see how it's that different from prostitution.

I totally hear what you and breathesgelatin are saying and I am not completely disagreeing with you.


I have come to understand a little bit of your way of seeing things having read many of your posts. In an ideal world, women wouldn't "need" a man. However, your feminist views are likely based on a Western viewpoint. If I am incorrect on that, I welcome clarification. One must have a greater understanding of how these *Eastern European* women live. See, here is what you said:

I wish that instead of growing old "waiting for a husband" these women would make lives for themselves without regard for what society has to say about marriage.

I have recently returned from visiting my family Poland several weeks ago. That country is still in a mess from the bad workover they got from the Communist era. Unemployment is really, really bad. Things are so bad that the women cannot "make a life for themselves" even if they are skilled. Guess what? The men can't either!!! Your comment makes sense, but it simply is not the reality for these people.


Now, let's look at the cultural differences. Most of my Polish relatives are farmers/land owners. My two cousins (a brother and sister) and the female cousin's husband took me around the countryside to see everyone. At every house we went to, my cousin Mariusz and his brother-in-law, Kasik, ran outside to visit with the menfolk, to look at the tractors, etc. They left Grazyna and I to sit inside the house with the aunt who was *always* busy cooking. I wanted to run around outside to look at the farm, the animals and to watch people working. But nooooo I got the impression that I was meant to stay inside because I'm a girl.


Irritated and bored, I brought it up to Grazyna who explained that this was the Polish way - that farm women had their work to do and Polish farm men had their work to do. After that, the menfolk tried to respect that I am an American woman and thus, I am more independant. I started wandering around more and they even showed me around. In turn, I tried to respect that their culture is different than mine and I didn't try and butt in on their menfolk activities.


You see, it's all well and good to say, "they are completely dependent upon men to "rescue" them from Russia", but that's not necessarily true. Or, at least, that's a comment with a lot of spin. At the end of my trip, I discussed with my cousins the possibility of hosting them for a visit at my house here in the US. They gasped at the idea for, in their mind, the idea of going for a vacation in America is unheard of. As Grazyna told me, "It's so impossible, we don't even dream about that." They cited the surpeme difficulty in getting an American tourist visa, even with sponsorship.


My Polish cousin on my mother's side of the family (both sides of my family are Polish), tried to get a visa to the US to visit her brother who was studying at an American high school as an exchange student. She was unable to obtain one, even though her family in Poland is financially stable and she had letters from the US to support her application.


It's just difficult.


A skilled Russian woman may *want* to make a better life for herself, by herself; but she simply *can't* due to the current state of affairs. These women recognize that their "ticket" out of there is to marry an American man. You may think that they are weak and dependant; I could see it another way and say that they are actually quite smart and enterprising for knowing how to play the system! It's all how you look at it!


I have heard about sad American men thinking that they were going to find a companion from a mail-order service, only to get a mean, scheming wife who used them for everything they had before leaving. Does a man in that case get what he deserves? Maybe. But those ladies certainly weren't the doormat types you describe!


At any rate, I'm not an advocate of mail-order bride agencies. I am simply trying to point out that:


a) we should not impress our Western feminist views upon other cultures


b) we should not pass judgement on women who are living in a place where they are not free to make a life for themselves


and


c) some of these mail-order brides know *precisely* what they are doing


Just food for thought! Thanks for the great discussion!


.....Kelly