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Old 08-01-2003, 11:47 PM
adduncan adduncan is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 770
Quote:
Originally posted by Munchkin03


I'm a little confused about some stuff. Everyone's been saying that the Pope doesn't have the authority to change beliefs and doctrines. What was Vatican II all about, then? Wasn't that an era of major reform and change within the church, which impacted Catholic (and to some extent) and world society? Is it time for Vatican III to address te issues of child molestation, contraception to prevent the very real, very scary spread of AIDS, and other issues?
I'm probably going deeper in to an answer to this than many people are willing to accept or listen to but here goes.

In Catholic teaching there is Tradition with a big "T" and tradition with a little "t". Big T's can not be changed. These are the fundamental moral and faith principles that the faith is founded upon.

Little t's however, are more flexible. These are disciplines, not doctrines. They are practices that are intended to reinforce and remind the faithful of what we believe and why. These can be changed. Because life and cultures and languages and the world in general changes, little t's can be modified if necessary if their relevance doesn't have the same impact. However, they do not come into conflict with the Big T's.

Vatican 2 was about "little t's". It was actually a continuation of Vatican 1 which ended prematurely when the Pope who called it died suddenly. Vatican 1 examined the relational role between the bishops/higher-up church authorities and the priests. It was supposed to continue on to examine the relationship between the local priest and the parishes: but like I said, that part didn't happen.

Vatican 2 picked that part up: re-examining the roles and relationship between the priests and parishioners and deciding what role each needed to play in evolving society. Such things as lay altar servers, the language of the Mass, etc. are all "little t's". So discussion of these (and their dissemination by the media) made it sound like a much bigger shift than it was, when taken against the backdrop of nearly two millenia of history.

Another word about councils: there's been lots of them. A problem comes up as a result of society evolving and changing, the church leadership meets about it, and decides how to respond. That's pretty much it. And this has been going on for several centuries. So "changes" and "councils" really aren't new and certainly didn't start in the late 1960s.

Re: artificial contraception: many people who persue these issues are not Catholic and dont' give a tinker's dam what the Pope has to say about anything. So even if "the church" changed its teaching (and it wouldn't, because you are now in the territory of Big T's) it really wouldn't have any effect on the people making the most noise on these issues. Re: AIDS--also a result of people ignoring traditional teaching on sex. You don't have to like that statement, but you'd be hard pressed to argue w/ it.

Re: child molestation: this is already a sin and has been acknowledged as such. The issue is how to handle the perpetrators. (Before anyone else continues to single out Catholics and how they handle child molestors, I'd like to point out that the "seal of confession" extends to other denominations and religions as well. They just don't have as structured "confessional" process as Catholics do. Protestants are every bit as capable of sweeping these crimes under the rug-- you just don't hear the media decrying them.)

Given the tone of most posts about Catholic anything, I have a very real belief that what I just typed is going to fall on deaf ears. Besides, there are a LOT of details that are just not going to fit in a GC thread. So this is more than likely my last explanation on GC of finer points of Catholic teaching. If anyone wants to hear more, hit the "email" button and I'll be glad to chat in private. If you email to argue or condemn or "I don't mean to be mean, but....." I'm not going there. And I can promise that if someone wants to learn something, I'll explain it but not force it--I can't change anyone's mind any more than they can change mine.

Aint' tolerance a great thing???

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)
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