[decadence]

1- You completely strawmanned Hoosier's purpose here with your incessent attacking and counterattacking back and forth (and, yes, Hoosier has weakened his stance by doing the same) - can you not see this?
2 - If your reason for being on the board is your interest group, and you seem to be asserting that to be a goal of the highest order (which I won't argue with), why would you cut on Hoosier for having a similarly singular reason for posting?

Hmm, I wasn't trying to say 'look at me I'm so great'. What I meant, was I merely have a legitimate reason for being here, an interest in chatting about Greek life (GreekChat). That's all. Someone who posts in the Rush forum 'there are x sororities on my campus, what do you think of them etc etc' also has a similarly valid reason (though different) for being here. Someone with a nickname like ilovemyglo (sorry to keep picking on the same person but that screenname illustrates things so well!) is clearly here because they love the Greek group they're a part of - so naturally they wanna chat about it and what better place than GreekChat?! Likewise, the words KSig are in your screen-name so I'd guess you're part of a GLO with the words Kappa Sigma in it... talking about something you are involved in is normal... hence you're here in Greekchat too.

Hoosier though seems to have no reason for being here other than to shout "Greeks suck. Look, I've brought evidence!" Nothing CONSTRUCTIVE is ever said by him. There's no debate, nothing damnit. .

Personally, I find Hoosier to be a valuable member of this board - the things he posts are far more valuable to the greek community (generally social greeks, but again they comprise a large portion of greek life) than almost any other posts in this forum, greek life, and etc.

I disagree with him being a valuable member of this board and respectfully and gently state I feel you misunderstand his motives. Yes, Hazing IS one of the most important topics facing greeks. I'm reminded of this every time I have an interest meeting and the new people ask me if they're gonna be made to eat goldfish/run around topless/if it's true what their friend said or what they heard, etc. (and yes those questions were asked).

But Hoosier's motive seem to me not to be to "highlight an issue close to his heart in the hope a community will seek new ways to combat the problem". It seems to be merely a wish to *rub our noses in the fact* there are some idiots out there who like to bully people trying to join their orgs. Ksig, he doesn't seem to be saddened by the fact some more negative publicity has come along... he seems to REVEL IN IT.

I'm not trying to hide away from the Hazing issue, damn no. But it CAN be discussed constructively, across this entire buletin board. I've read posts in the HBGLO forums analysing hazing - with ideas put forward such as alumni and people important in their community coming along on an afternoon to the dining areas; explaining this is hazing and what to do about it here's a tel # on which to report it. I've seen people tackling head on *why* hazing has been prevalent and considering what ways to accomplish the same positive end-results (if any) those who indulged in it deemed it had. I've seen sadness expressed at what's been done in the name of brotherhood and sisterhood.
And then... there's the impression I get from Hoosier's posts.

Maybe I'm flogging a dead horse, maybe I should shut the hell up . Maybe I'm oh-so-confused. Maybe all I'm doing is pissing people off. There certainly isn't a flood of responses in the same vein of mine (as an aside: heartfelt thanks for those who did comment in support).

As for my 'personal remarks' aka insults, yeah maybe they weaken my stance a bit but they were made impetuously, in the course of making other considered points. ALL I've seen from Hoosier is attacks without any actual points made; without responses to issues raised or answers to questions. So yeah there was some name calling on my part in the course of debating - but s'all there was from him, ever. I HAVE asked what his motives are, whether he even likes/supports fraternities and sororities. The only (IMO not particularly humorous) response he seemed to make was some crap suggesting how members of a certain sorority were 'easy'.

I'm not trying to suggest I'm superior or better than the next guy - I'm not. I dunno maybe I should go away if I don't like it. Hell, I don't like his actions, I don't support his apparent agenda. No way do I get the impression he's nobly making heartfelt attempts to improve the community his beloved fraternity (if he is in one) is a part of. I just can't help thinking of that quote, went something like "all that's needed for evil to triumph is for good 'men' to do nothing". That's why this thread has me in it giving my views. Often the stuff he regurgitates has a tenuous or non existent connection with GLOs anyway.
Look at the Hazing forum itself, even the first page of threads is filled with threads started by him - let alone the rest of the pages, over time. There are other thread starters, sure. But they're always posted with comments like 'when will we ever learn'. Those GC members intentions are not under debate. They're not appearing to take <if I could remember that German word which means 'to take a malicious pleasure in someone else's misfortune' it'd be put here> in all of this.

And yep, Hazing is kinda the topic for this sub-forum/forum/whatever but it's not provided so Hoosier can simply say 'here's yet another article, I hope all you people out there know what 'you' spend your time doing - you sickos'. Risk Management is about managing risks, addressing the issues.
Christ he's been here a year and a half almost, not once has he seemed to debate how the problems can be addressed, given any views on how to combat the evils of hazing yet still people commend him??? All he does is post this anti greek information over and over and over. Does the word Troll mean nothing to GC'ers ? This link explains it. Seems to sum things up .

There is one HELL of a difference between bravely highlighting the spectre of hazing in an effort to improve greek life as a whole and waving examples around like trophies, in an effort to weaken it.

That's all I have to say about that now. Sorry if I'm boring, I don't wanna sound like a broken record.

... Richard