I know that NPC orgs haze as well, but being that I am interested in NPHC that is the reason that I threw that question out there, but thanks for making that comment. I agree that people shouldn't just sign on the dotted line and get letters...but that leads back to my original question. Is there a happy medium between working to obtain your letters, and being beat down to obtain your letters....how can orgs ensure that their interest cross the sands the "proper" way without putting themselves in a situation that might end up in suspension of their chapter? Why can't traditions and rituals be kept but minus taking wood? If you didn't take wood does that make you paper?