Quote:
Originally posted by KSig RC
OK - so let's use a real-life example (yep, I'm violating my own rule against anecdotal evidence...)
A kid I know very well, in fact went to high school with, applied out of a top-50 high school, a fairly well-known magnet school. His GPA was over 3.8, and he scored a 35 on the ACT and a 1600 on the SAT. Blah blah he had other figures, including a couple sports letters and etc. Didn't get into Yale.
Another one, this one top in his class, AP State Scholar out of Iowa, 35 and 1560, etc - Waitlisted at Harvard.
Why did these happen?
Because 4 legacies to Yale (out of 90 graduating students) and 4 legacies to Harvard got in early admission. Half of these had similar academic credentials, so they obviously deserved the nod over those w/out legacy status . . . the others, however, were significantly below these two who did not get in. (PS - before you decide to call bullshit, PM me for more details/contact info)
Personally, I think it should be considered 'the breaks' for these types of schools - if you apply to Harvard, well, they have the right to deny students with superlative records, that's part of the deal (and part of why you apply to these places). However, to argue that 'it never happens' or 'money is never an issue' seems a bit as poor as saying 'money is the only issue' or 'it always happens.'
The legacy info for Yale certainly reflects that the mean isn't different from the mean for the college as a whole - but statistical outliers happen. Personally, I don't think it is right to lump in legacy status with affirmative action - I buy the loyalty bit, although I'm sure some won't agree with me. It's the same thing as when we give legacies a chance - we owe it to the kid's dad, or whoever, to give that opportunity.
|
Rob, I'm kinda confused at what you're getting at here. I don't know the cases of those that you claim had significantly lower SATs, but maybe there is more than what you saw, or those students chose to let you see.
People bring up the SAT factor often. To an average American parent, your child is a genius if he breaks 1400 and off the charts if he goes over 1500. Well hey, if you can't break 1400 you've got a huge disadvantage when applying to competitive schools. If you break 1500, congrats...now you can at least step to the starting line little ones. There are so many kids with high SATs, great extra curriculars, high GPAs that never make it just because they don't stand out. Considering the fact that the mean SATs on legacies and regular admits are so similar, then it wouldn't be going too far to that those legacies were able to make themselves stand out as well. By the way, legacies still get rejected at a VERY high rate. In the case of Yale, the dean just personally reads their applications to make sure they get more attention (or call it what you will).
Going even further, it's necessary to separate legacies into different groups. One select group, I'm sure, has "bought" their way into the university by donating large amounts of money. I've heard certain rumors from my more "boarding school" friends who claim there are "buy-in" numbers at certain schools (Penn had something like $500K minimum 5 years ago) but these are still rumors. Not too many people can even afford to fall into that category - legacy or not. And such people could donate tons of money regardless of whether they were legacies. Call them rich...not legacies.
-Rudey