[naraht]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

True, and good point. But in chemistry, “cis” and “trans” describe the position of atoms or groups across a double bond. They’re valid, measurable structural configurations. No one is disputing that. But that’s exactly my point. So, in chemistry, “cis” and “trans” have a physical basis. You can observe them with spectroscopy or a microscope. They’re not subjective labels, they describe a molecule’s geometry.

So like, in human biology, “cis” is ideological, not structural. No biologist ever needed “cis” to describe normal sexual reproduction. The terms “male” and “female” have worked fine for centuries because they actually map onto our reproductive system, chromosomes, and gametes. “Cisgender” didn’t come from embryology or genetics, it came from gender theory. Its purpose is to reframe normal biological categories as just one version of an identity spectrum, so “trans” feels equally original. But unlike cis/trans isomers, a man identifying as a woman doesn’t physically flip chromosomes the way a double bond flips atoms. It’s not structural, it’s social.

So yeah, “cis/trans” in chemistry is real, observable, and testable. “Cis/trans” in sex categories is marketing. One is about measurable bonds, while the other is about feelings. Huge difference.

But I appreciate you bringing up the chemistry, it actually proves my point.

I'm just confused as to why you think I support you on this. I'm pointing out that it isn't a made up term and the use of cis as the opposite isn't special to sexual identity. I have a non-binary child who let my wife and I know at age 20. (Has *really* early male pattern baldness which as a gender marker tends to affect things as it would from a nb who is a D breast size, however I know someone for who that is true as well.

Main reason that I haven't chimed in otherwise with a position on this is that it doesn't affect my fraternity since we aren't social and as such admitted both women and men in the 1970s. I honestly think having a fraternity where the situation of having brothers able to date each other *and* working through which students can be admitted 50 years ago tends to make the group in general more liberal on the topic. (the first out of the closet homosexual I ever met was my big brother as a Pledge)