[Opie25]

Hello, everyone!

First of all, let me apoligize before if I do offend anyone who has posted, or will post to this thread. That is not my desire, nor intention. I just wanted to also add my perspective, which I hope will be taken just as that...a perspective/viewpoint of my experience.

I have actually went through and read the entire thread concerning this topic, and I have been both offended (and that's okay) and content with some of the comments that memebers have made.

I have noticed that generally everyone does indeed state that they would/do fully suport their gay brothers or sisters, and I think that is fantastic! I encourage you to continue to do so, and hope that you will also encourage your fellow members, alumni, family, and community to do the same.

Secondly, I am also listed on the Lambda 10 web site under my organization and campus. I did this for several reasons:

1) I owed it to myself (being gay and greek are both two very important aspects of who I am), so having a place (even if it is just on a web site listing) was very important to me.

2) I did it for my future brothers in my organization, and others in other groups, or even those individuals who go to the same University I did. I didn't want them to feel alone (like I often did)...I wanted them to know it was allright to say, "Yes, I'm gay......and you know what? I'm in a fraternity too." And I can be both, and I can be accepted, appreciated, and I should be accepted. I deserve that. They deserve that. You deserve that.

As for the validity of names (I'm not going to argue who is right or who is wrong, or what should be done) But, my organization is no longer on my undergraduate campus....so guess what folks...if you were to go looking for it...you wouldn't find it. But, I can guarantee you that I was on that campus, and I was in that chapter....in fact...I was one of the founders of that chapter. So it is by no means beyond the realms of possiblity that an organization that was previously there is no longer listed, or present on the school's or the organization's web site.

I dont' know if there is necessarily a fool/joke/tampor proof method to listing the names. And I'm sure if anyone has the time, expertiese, or willingness to help Shane or Lambda 10 verify those names or brainstorm ideas, he would be more than willing to listen and take those into consideration.

BUT, at the same time...what methods are there to prove that any of you belong to the organizations that you do? I was directed to this post through another listserve so, I haven't had the opportunity to check it all out yet. But, by browsing I have noticed that alomst everyone has their organization either in their ID or in their signature. My question is (and it's not to start an arguement). What methods did this site go through to verify your membership? Your campus? That you remained an active member and didn't drop out, get kicked out, or even graduated from your institiuion? I know when I signed up (like I said I'm new). They didn't ask any of that information or take any efforts or measures to secure any of that information. So, I guess what I'm getting to is.......Why is it so important for lambda 10 to verify that information (and for you to have to have that verification) when there is no one doing the same here? I don't see hundreds (an exageration) of posts questioning the validity of any of the groups/organizations/campuses that people claim to belong to on here....where is that? So, I guess in some respects I can see why some people might think that some homophobic comments/ideas/concerns have been made on this list. I by no means have any proof or reason to think that anyone is a homophobe....I'm just making a general statement about the posts as a whole body.

A final few comments and I'm done with this posting (I promise...thanks for being patient).

As far as gays in your organizations, or your neighbors, or your sisters. I cannot absolutely guarantee you that their is a current member who identifies as a lesbian, gay, or bisexual person...do I think at sometime someone you know from that group will come to that realization? Yes, but that's my opinion from my own personal view points and experience. Are there gays in every fraternity and sorority (nationally). I can say from my experience (I'm a fraternity and sorority advisor) that there are most definately lesbian, gay, bisexual members in almost (if not every organization, fraternity, sorority, team, club, etc.) I have met a lot of our gay brothers and sisters...they are there....you just may not see them.

One final thing, as far as calling Inter/national fraternities and sororities to verify membership. I do not know if that is necessarily the best way to verify that info. For one thing, Usually organizations are very guarded with that information....they don't want to offend/turn-off/allienate any of their members by giving out their personal information....I also don't think that it would necessarily be a good business practice for them. (Yes, I said business.......they are indeed businesses, with values, purpose, goals, and customers)

Secondly, I know from reading both copies of the books from Lambda 10 (Out on Fraternity Row & Secret Sisters) and from my own conversations with other advisors and headquarters staff (and gays work there too!) that some (not all) but some organizations have encouraged their members not to participate in the books or series for whatever reason, so I don't necessarily believe that they would be all that cooperative.

Okay....I think that's about it....sorry it was so long. I just had a lot to say, I guess. I hope that it has made some of you think, some of you happy, and yes even some of you mad. There's nothing wrong with being mad or offended or angry...it's what you do with that, how you approach people, and how you treat people that matter.

I also encourage you to check out the Lambda 10 site fully. I know that many of the postings have talked about studies and surveys about homosexuality. I know that there is a survey on the site (by Doug Case) that is a survey that deals specifically with this issue. If it is no longer there, I'm sure Shane would be willing to email it to you, if he still has it. (Sorry Shane, don't mean to volunteer you as the premiere spokesperson!) Also, in the September issue of OUT there is an article about gay and bisexual fraternity members.

Good nite to you all, and if you have any questions please feel free to email, or post on the list...I will try to check sometime soon.


O.P.I.E.
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"Behold, how good and pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in UNITY!"