I understand your experience, I really do.
But once again, anecdotal evidence can not be assumed to hold true to a group at large.
If I held to my anecdotal evidence about whites I would make the assumption that they were all rich WASPs because that's what I grew up with in my provate school.
My experience is skewed too because I have never been in a school where every minority didn't work their ass off a. to get there and b. to stay there. It was quite all right for the white kids- who were almost all rich- not to have especially good grades, or maybe a discipline problem, but we were well aware that the school wasn't going to have the same lenient attitude with us. So this whole "Who deserves to be there" argument really only happened over the people who bought their way in, and guess what, they weren't minorities.
The conduct of the few minorities that you saw who didn't appreciate what they had doesn't disvalue the system at large.
If you looked, I am sure you would have found that they are in the clear minority of people who do get into college using affirmative action.
And you still haven't addressed my point- when the chances of black children in this country at a decent education are so SHARPLY curtailed at the secondary level, how can you even imagine that some form of AA is not needed? At the public school in MY neighborhood they barely had books, and at some of the schools there were actual holes in the walls. Real fun during winter. I refused to walk by the school at night because that's where "business transactions" would commonly take place- and don't think they left when school started either. Let's just say learning wasn't a priority at that school, just getting the hell out was. Busing was not an option unless you tested out- if you didn't go to the crappy ass public school then your parents had to put out the money for parochial or private school. And most families really didn't have it.
So kids who went there and graduated didn't always have the best grades- not because they weren't smart, or didn't try. But it wasn't a place where LEARNING was a priority. And you can forget about help with AP's or SAT's. One friend of mine who went there told me that when SAT time rolled around, no one gave them any info on the test other than they had to take ie, they just told them to show up at the gym on a saturday.
And applying to colleges wasn't going to be easy unless by the Grace of God you happened to have one of those rare college guidance counselors who gave two shits about you. One of my best friends that I grew up with went to a SUNY- and I am not criticising SUNY's here, but this girl had the grades and extracurriculars to go damn near anywhere she wanted! But when she was applying to schools, the thought of a Harvard, or a Princeton (which will give extensive financial aid to anyone who needs it, regardless of race, they can afford it!) never entered her head! No one at that school ever assumed that it could be within her range of possibilities! I was SO upset when she told me because I knew that she could do whatever she put her mind to, and whoever was advising her didn't.
So there is my anecdotal evidence, and the research that I have done into the school system has shown me that far from being only my observations, it is the experience of many minorities, especially in urban areas.
Trying to compare the experience of white immigrants and Blacks in this country is like comparing apples and tomatoes.
Immigrants come here with a choice, and without social stigma- unless they're Hispanic, or Lord help them, Haitian. They don't even begin to face the kinds of discrimination that blacks do in this society.
I have to say that I resent the hell out of your implication that somehow all blacks are somehow just lazy. You have NO IDEA what we face, and you make it obvious.
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Originally posted by ilovemyglo
Okay let me explain a few things about me personally and I also want to say that CREAM and EXQUISITE5 are about the only two posts I have read on this thing in awhile that make more than perfect sense. I still don't agree with affirmitive action, but I can truly appreciate your point of view.
This is a baring of my soul so I would appreciate if you have any personal blows to make at to do so with a PM- Here goes
I come from a poor part of Louisville, KY. I grew up in a prodominetly black neighborhood. I never cared, nor do I now, I am proud of where I am from and the relationships I have developed from it.
I have two brothers and my parents neither one were afforded the opportunity to go to college. Their families were poor and they both came from broken homes.
My mother and fathered worked two jobs a piece for many years and put my brothers and I through private schooling when I was young. In fifth grade I was taken out of private schools because I tested into an advanced placement program in the public school system. I was then bused to a very bad part of town (over 65% of the rapes and murders were commited within three miles of my school that year) because I was white. No other reason, and that is what was told to me my first day of school by every student there- I didn't belong and the only reason I was there was because I was white.
I went to a middle school closer to home (remember the poor part of town) and with a very diverse group of kids. In 6th grade Louisville's school system changed so that busing was no longer enforced by where you lived. This meant that if a student in a poor neighborhood wanted to go to a school out in the rich part of town they could and the county is responsible for transportation. I honestly did not know that places do not allow this everywhere (such as the NYC example given). I chose to go to a public high school while my parent worked extra jobs (including weekends) to pay for my brothers to go to a private school in town. I applied for a magnet school here. I had a 4.0 and was a model student. I had to write an essay, audition and have an interview. I was accepted and that is where I went to high school. I got to choose what high school I wanted to go to and where it was. I can't imagine what would have happened if I had been forced to go to my "home" school as they used to call them. Most students that I knew chose schools outside of their home school because they wanted a better education.
Because I watched my parents labor for years to give their children a better education and because myself and my two brothers worked so hard in school, we got to go to college. Not because we are white and had it better, we had it just as hard as anyone.
This is why AA bothers me. My parents did it. My brothers and I did it. We came from a poor neighborhood, worked our arses off and now my brothers are engineers and I am about to graduate cume laude. We had to take out student loans to pay for college, and I will pay them back, no problem. So I get frustrated when I know a few (yes a few, not every person) people that have received scholarships, get a 2.0 every semester and don't have to pay for college because they are minorities. They are not model students, they don't come to class half the time, they complain about doing homework and exams, they are disruptive in class and yet they gladly tell people they don't pay for school, they got a full ride. That doesn't seem fair to me. Why do they get a free college education while I get good grades, I study hard, and do well in school and I have to end up in debt? All because I am white? I could get a free ride through the Native American funds. I am enough Native American to qualify for free college, but I chose not to because I don't think that is a good enough reason to get a free ride. My parents always taught me to work for what I get.
Now, all that being said, can some of you understand why I may feel that AA if unjust? I came from those poor neighborhoods you have talked about. I went to those schools and worked very hard on limited supplies. My parents worked two jobs each to make sure their kids got a good education. They sacrificed so much for us, and anyone else could do the same. That is all I am saying- anyone can do it. It just means hard work.
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