[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Tulip86

I take it you've lived in The Netherlands and are well versed in the culture since you make a statement about how things are here?

It is wonderful that you are excited that you actually live in The Netherlands or something....

Originally Posted by Tulip86

All children in the Netherlands(of the age that don't believe in "Santa" anymore) are encouraged to join in the debate on how Zwarte Piet isn't appropriate. (and it isn't appropriate, and they know)

There have been many, many debates on how to handle the situation, but they can't just abolish this custom overnight since Zwarte Piet is more popular among the kids than Sinterklaas. The government is taking steps though to eliminate the custom, but they can't just change this overnight. There is a task force (consisting op people from all cultures represented in the country) working on this issue.

Zwarte Piet was decades ago depicted as a lazy and mean but as the Netherlands became more integrated and the old colonial stereotypes were eradicated he became the good spirited and intelligent character he is now.

Is it wrong that white men are walking around in blackface and red lips to depict a man of (west) African heritage? Yes, that is so wrong. But there is awareness here, and it isn't done to insult and make fun of a culture.

...but nothing, I mean nothing, you said in this post refuted anything I said.

It is fine if you wanted to give us an update but do not confuse that with refuting what I said.

Originally Posted by Tulip86

For future reference, please don't refer to ONE culture in Europe as "Europeans" because European means anyone and everyone from Norway to Spain, and Ireland to the Ukraine and Turkey. That's people in all colors/shapes and sizes.

You noticed that too? I also noticed that and did not even need to live in Europe to make a statement about how things are there. This subtopic is not only about The Netherlands and Zwarte Piet's impact is not exclusive to The Netherlands. That is considered part of European folklore.

As an aside, I had forgotten about the book Black People in European Folklore: Golliwog, Zwarte Piet, Black Arab (2010) and I think I will see if I can find a copy somewhere.