[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Um how? The bolded is where we disagree. I think women of every social class and age and in every state should be able to have an abortion for any reason at any time until viability free of harassment from protestors, biased counseling, parental notification, and mandatory waiting periods. Fewer restricitions and lower costs of EARLY abortions will eliminate/greatly reduce the need for LATE abortions, and if late abortions are needed for medical reasons, they can be performed at a safe reputable licensed regulated place.

This would be a weird place to say "please let me have your babies" right? Even if it were just a euphemism for how much I love what you said? Yeah, it'd probably be weird.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

At what point does the "right" to a medical procedure trump the right for it to be regulated? I have a "right" to have my eyebrows waxed, but the state of TX regulates it - only licensed cosmetologists can do it, and their places of business are inspected and must meet certain standards.

First, I think conflating eyebrow waxing with medical care is just wrong. Secondly, I believe that medical care should be regulated based on medical necessity. For example, requiring women to see ultrasounds prior to an abortion is intentionally emotionally manipulative and a delaying tactic. It does nothing for the actual needs or safety of the mother and is purely a political regulation. Similarly if the level of regulation is more than is needed then you are limiting access to care. If all flu shots had to be provided in a doctor's office, and could never be provided in a pharmacy or a school or nursing home then far fewer people would gets shots, right? But obviously open heart surgery requires an OR, multiple medical professionals, and sterile equipment so doing that at Walgreens would be a bad idea.

It sounds like you are arguing for a moral reason for not changing the regulations while I am arguing, admittedly using a very unusual case, that there may be medical reasons for requiring facitilites to be held to a higher standard. I'd like the statistics for the incidence of clients at out-patient clinics having complications. I know of an abortion doctor's office here in Houston (now closed) that was well-known for having ambulances come to pick up patients on a rather frighteningly constant basis, but know of no place to get city/state/national statistics for that. Those would be useful.
(eta - it's easy to find statistics about complications in general - it's just not easy to find them broken down by hospital vs. out-patient or doctors' offices.)

I'm actually making the argument that the standards are actually in place and the goverment regulatory departments failed to uphold them in this unusual case. Which is why unusual cases are generally poor grounds for changing laws yet still frequently the only thing that spurs changes in laws.

Now if well-regulated clinics are having persistent medical complications that go beyond those expected then there is probably a case to be made, but as you said, I don't know where there statistics are either and in lieu of them I'm not willing to make the argument to increase regulations.