[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Or you are driving for less stupid reasons (i.e. work and family) and can't get out of your driving obligation.

Umm....I take it you've never driven in Houston with flooded streets.

True story: I think it was earlier this summer, as usual, we had a quick, hard rain, and the streets flooded. A woman and her daughter were caught driving in the rain and the highway underpass they were on flooded. The daughter got out and left the car. She tried to urge her mom to leave, but the mom would not leave her car. Sadly, the mom drowned because she would not leave her car.

That is when I shake my head and ask why.

You are using a victimless and noncriminal act of nature as an analogy. I generally don't describe people caught by inclement weather as "victims" because nature cannot victimize. Pick an analogy dealing with people on both the victim and the perpetrator side of the equation.

I picked that analogy just to show how narrow-minded I feel Drole's logic is. It is so black and white. There are reasons behind why things happen, and understanding the reason helps to understand the why.

As I stated in my first post about victim precipitation, analyzing victim precipitation is not the same thing as victim blame. What you're doing is more along the lines of victim blame because you keep saying "I guess it's all someone else's fault."

No, you, Drole and agzg are saying it is someone else's fault. I said the the gay guy has to share some of the blame because he put himself in a situation he did not have to. The fraternity guys were wrong too. I just don't think this incident would have ever happened if the gay guy just did not show up.

You want the victims to share some of the blame. The notion that some rape victims should've been smarter is why victims of rape and sexual assault who feel that they were being stupid do not come forward. We already know that there are ways to reduce the probability of any type of victimization; and there are campus efforts to teach students about being smarter and more aware of their surroundings. Teaching people to protect themselves is not the same thing as telling them they were essentially idiots because they were careless.

To the bold: that has been my whole point! Thanks for saying it too! If you know the ways to prevent from being a victim, then practice them. I'm not saying that you will never be a victim of something at some point, but you can definitely reduce your chances.

Everyone has been careless at some point, ranging from leaving products unattended or not fully paying attention to our surroundings as we walk to the car. And we should all thank God that a motivated offender either wasn't around or didn't take us up on that opportunity. Had a motivated offender seized that opportunity, we would see how we could've done some things differently to reduce the risk but the blame remains 100% with the offender. I cringe when some defense attorneys ask the victim "what were you doing in the first place? Didn't you know....."

Well, that is a fair question. Because I would want to know too. How much did you know, and when?

ETA: The only time when the blame doesn't lie 100% with the offender, and this is also an example of victim precipitation, is when the victim and the offender had an equal risk of victimization. For instance, if someone brings a gun into an otherwise nonlethal argument and the person with the gun ends up getting shot, which happens quite often. The person who brought in the gun could've easily been the offender but ended up as the victim.

I agree.