[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by msl2008

i think in both instances whether you haze or do not haze you will get good members and you will get bad members. i just think that something more difficult then learning history or doing philanthropies should be incorporated into a pledging process. i guess it's with the fact that i always saw greeks as being beyond the fact of who you are or who you know or what your gpa is but it could be something where people from various backgrounds can all start with a clean slate and go thru the same process and not have it matter who you were before pledging. picking and choosing members is good and all but i think then you will tend to choose people like yourself. i believe that everyone should be given a fair chance and the only way for that is to have them all go through the same process.

This doesn't make sense. If both hazing and non-hazing activities have the same results, there's no justification to haze. Also, everyone can go through the same process without it including hazing.

maybe that's what gets at me is the fact that i look at a lot of greek organizations with the same types of people and think, "oh, these guys or girls got in b/c of who they knew or how high their gpa was." giving an equal chance by going thru a physical and psychological pledge process would be fair imo. people will say that's a disadvantage to fat people or whatnot but in those cases you would structure the program to meet their needs. the whole point is pushing people to a higher level that they previously thought was impossible and in that regard, i think physical pledging would be beneficial as a confidence booster.

If you structure the program to fit the needs of certain individuals, how is that holding everyone to the same standards? And when did it become a bad thing to be known as the organization that has several members with high GPAs?

well my whole point is that physical pledging would be subjective. i would not expect a fat guy to do 50 pushups at once or run 3 miles but at the first event i would probably give him 10 pushups and have him run half a mile and try to build him up eventually to the 50 level goal. thus, even though it's a "punishment" for not knowing information or not completing a task, it can definitely serve as a confidence booster when at the end of the process he sees how far he's come. on the same token, when a football player starts pledging, first event i would tell him to do 50 and work him to 100 by the end of his process. the whole point i'm trying to make is push people to their limits. i'm not sure if you guys can understand what i'm thinking but i think the ideal pledge process would involve both mental and physical tasks so that way you get a vast # of different types of people. and i know what you're thinking kansas city when you say that physical would only let the "strong, fit" pledges survive but that's why i think it's important to incorporate other aspects. having philanthropies, study sessions, w/e is great, but i think it should be supplemented by something more physical. any ideas on a hybrid system to challenge all aspects of a persons being?

How does someone pushing himself to do more pushups prove how he will perform as a brother? It doesn't.

From your definitive stance, I would think your chapter has already implemented a hybrid program. Why would you need ideas? Why not tell us what works instead of giving hypotheticals?