[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I think the fact that it is overseen by adults helps. I don't see the day of service as hazing. I think the "not speaking" and the camping out alone are the iffy parts.

I guess I can see why you might think that, but even under stophazing.org's definition, it doesn't seem to me like these things aren't hazing. I've said a little more below.

Most of the boys in our troop receive an invitation to OA as soon as they get their First Class, which is usually at age 11/12. This troop is an Eagle producing troop. . . . In fact, he'll probably have his BoR on Monday, the day before his 13th birthday. So yeah, they're on a fast track.

Wow, our troop moves fast, but not that fast. Even so, I don't think I've ever heard of a troop where the invitation to OA is almost that automatic. I've known plenty of guys who go through Scouts for years without getting tapped out.

BTW, good luck to him on his BoR. My 11-year-old will get his Scout badge Monday night.

If he decides some day to do OA, I won't stop him, but I don't know that *I* will feel totally comfortable that weekend! I just kept thinking during that video that if a fraternity didn't allow their members to talk and made them sleep alone in a remote area, it would be considered hazing.

It's not really that alone in a remote area. We would go out into the woods as a group. We'd stop every 5-10 steps, and then the guide would say the guy next in line "go 20 steps that way." It's more like being scattered around the woods, far enough apart to feel like you're on your own, but close enough together (and with people in charge close by) to be safe (and to hear other guys snoring ).

As for the not-speaking, I think there is a difference between what was often done in fraternities and what is done in OA. Traditionally, many fraternities forbade pledges from speaking to anyone during Hell Week or some similar period, except as necessary in class or with professors. That did isolate the pledge on campus. With OA, what we're talking about is not speaking to anyone during the Ordeal itself, when the only people you will encounter are those participating in the Ordeal. Those leading will also not speak except as necessary to give direction. I particularly remember stopping the work at various points during the day and being given something (short) to read and ponder. Through the day, these readings built on each other and prepared you for the initiation ceremony. It really makes for a service day where there is a chance to think about what matters.

The video made a point to say that it IS not hazing like fraternities do, which kind of got my goat too..lol.

LOL, that would have irked me, too. But it just goes to show that they know what a lot of people will assume.