[ASTalumna06]

And MysticCat... I didn't mean to imply that you thought hazing was ok for guys. I completely understand where you're coming from. I can understand the example that you gave earlier, with the Order of the Arrow and Ordeal. I think that things like this can be an excellent test of someone's strength. And there are obviously differences between this, and joining a fraternity.

Order of the Arrow is through Boy Scouts of America, and I would imagine that these things are supervised in some way. With fraternities, on each campus, you have 18-22 year-old college students supervising 18-22 year-old college students.

With the Order of the Arrow, the people partaking in this are in Boy Scouts. They have been trained through the organization to deal with things like this. They weren't just thrown out into the woods by themselves to learn how to survive on their own.

And with fraternities and pledging, many times, the process is not explained. When hazing activities occur, pledges don't know what's coming at them until they're in the middle of it. There are young men who wish to join a fraternal organization that boasts a reputation of building men of character, emphasizing good academics, involving help with numerous philanthropic projects, and aiding in the development of social skills... and instead, they are bombarded with physical challenges and mental anguish that they weren't anticipating.

I can appreciate the idea of having people work together, solve problems, and get out of hard situations as a group. However, I don't think that ridiculous physical requirements and being yelled at constantly will help to build better fraternity (or sorority) members. I'm not implying that you were saying this, MysticCat. I'm just saying it in general.