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Old 11-24-2008, 12:39 AM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 15,854
No.. my rhetorical questions at the end were not directed at you personally.

General Motors is the 9th biggest company in the world. Ford is 13th. In the world. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...008/full_list/ In 2007, GM ranked 5th and was profitable. They are having cash flow problems due to the banking industry mess and they want a loan from the government, with interest.

Other car companies do not face all of the same external problems. Foreign auto companies like Toyota pay much less for their health care insurance. Other countries charge huge tariffs on cars that are imported from the U.S. The U.S. does not charge these tariffs on foreign cars coming in. They also pay their employees much less. Toyota has posted losses this year and GM has increased sales overseas but their sales are down significantly in the US. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/upto...-sales-gm.html This will be the first year that GM hasn't led all other auto companies in sales and Toyota won't be beating it out by that much. I'm not sure where you get your impression that GM has always been failing.

My points about the retirees and employees had to do with the impact on the economy and the point that this is not a Detroit problem but a problem for the whole country. My point about the government not anticipating the banking crisis was in response to your comments about the auto companies not anticipating this combination of factors. It seems to me like they all should have foreseen that something was coming, but we tend to ignore things until they become a crisis (health care and social security are both good examples). We're a very reactive society rather than a proactive society.

I would never buy a car from anywhere but GM unless they no longer exist. So yes, my car will be from one of the Big 3. I will buy American cars as long as they exist. It is hard for me to understand why anybody wouldn't support companies from their own country above foreign countries, but given my upbringing, I'm probably brainwashed. I'm fiercely loyal to GM and honestly, other than the Alfa Romeo or VW Bug, I've never seen a foreign car that I liked. I plan to buy either a Pontiac Vibe or a Saturn Vue. I'm leaning toward the Saturn because the "talk around town" is that Pontiac as a brand is going to disappear and I don't want to be stuck with a car that I can't get serviced under warranty from my dealer. The Vue is around $20K and the Vibe is around $18K. My current car sells new for $13K and gets 38 mpg highway. Affordable? Far more affordable than any foreign car I've seen. The Vue is very similar to the Honda CR-V, which sells for a couple thousand more. The Vibe is the same car as the Toyota Matrix and sells for about the same. The Vibe is actually one GM/Toyota joint venture vehicles. I would prefer to wait a year to buy a car because I originally planned to buy one in a year and give my current car to my daughter. I've just hit a spot where it might cost more to repair than it is worth so I may not have a choice. I was also hoping to wait until my mom's condo sold (it's been on the market for a year) so I could pay cash.

And that's where the emotion comes in. I'm scared to death about the economy. I feel helpless and hopeless. We have a condo that can't sell and a fund that's covering the carrying costs of it for now, but there will come a time when that fund is gone and we'll have to pay those costs. I don't think I can afford both that and a car payment. There are 6 houses on my street of 20 houses that are in foreclosure already. More will come if the auto companies go under. My job seems fairly secure, but do I want to live in a neighborhood of abandoned houses? What's that going to be like? Crime is shooting way up already as people get desperate. At the same time, my dad, a GM retiree is freaking out about losing his health insurance in January so he's having every surgery that he's been putting off. His entire GM stock option plan, which he invested thousands and thousands of dollars into has melted away into nothing. His wife is a real estate agent in Florida, so she's not making any money. If GM goes bankrupt, she loses her health insurance. Every Chrysler employee at their headquarters has been offered a buyout package. Every single one. Some have been encouraged strongly to take it as their layoff severance package won't be as good as what's being offered now. They are saying that Delphi won't be able to come out of bankruptcy and if they go under, then GM can't make cars anyway because they are one of their biggest parts suppliers. Visteon, one of Ford's big suppliers is laying off weekly. One friend of mine has been told that she will have a job, but that her entire department is being let go in two weeks. She's not allowed to say anything to them.

It's incredibly scary. I don't wish this spreading to the rest of the country. It's bad enough with it just being here for now.
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