[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Even if I have really intensive purposes?

Originally Posted by a.e.B.O.T.

You should probably read a little closer before you criticize. I love the right to vote. However, the gay marriage ban was put on the ballot in several states in 2004 to help Bush win the election. My fear is that the PURPOSE of many states adding it again in 2008 is NOT to get an opinion on gay marriage, but to make sure that the voters with traditional conservative beliefs come and vote for the PRESIDENTIAL election.

In 2004 you would have been right. However, I think in California in 2008, it's a reaction to what many see as a court overstepping its bounds.

Originally Posted by christiangirl

I have to disagree. It's to my understanding (though I do not claim to know everything) that christening was merely the parents' act of dedicating their child to God (which makes it synonymous with "infant dedication") and baptism was one's act of dedicating him/herself to God--making the choice of one's own free will. A dedication differs in that the parents are merely "giving their child to God" (which can be taken in whatever context you will, I know it varies from sect to sect). A baptism is not a remitting of original sin because that (somewhat) occurred at the moment the person accepted Jesus as savior, but a public declaration of that acceptance and acknowledgement that a new life is going to be lived. I grew up Baptist and while I don't claim that denomination anymore, this is this path I followed in childhood and what I was told those things meant./hijack

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Most Christians -- Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican, Reformed/Presbyterian, Methodist -- do practice infant baptism; obviously, they do not see it as a public declaration of faith -- at least of the infant's faith. (Some see it as a declaration of the parent's faith.)

My own tradition (Presbyterian, and yes it probably colors my discussion of the subject) views baptism as the sign that God claims us as part of the covenant, not that we have faith in God -- sort of a New Testament circumcision. In those churches that practice infant baptism, baptism is baptism, regardless of the age of the recipient. Without question, faith is required of an adult in a way that it is not required of an infant. But either way, it is baptism, the same sacrament. (This is one reason I see many writings steer away from the term "infant baptism" and speak instead of the baptism of infants or the baptism of adults.)

Originally Posted by a.e.B.O.T.

According to my study during Confirmation/Baptism as well as my degree in Religion and Theology, christiangirl is correct. There is a baptism and infant baptism (christening). If an infant stays within in God's eyes as he grows, then he is not in need of a baptism in SOME religions. Others believe that a christening is to dedicate the child's life to God during its youth as the Parent's are still considered responsible for a child's "original sin." Catholics use to declare that this was before the age of 7, and after the child was then responsible. However the church has leaned off of this idea and the adult baptism has moved passed the age of 7 in some respects. . . .

The CONCEPT merely comes from when the parents are responsible for the child's original sin and when the child is then responsible that the child needs to recommit itself since, as an infant, the child is unable to actively choose a christian (or jewish) path.

I see the distinction you are making, although I would disagree with the statement that if a child is "christened," and "stays in the eyes of God" he does not need baptism. He doesn't need baptism because he has already been baptized, and those traditions that practice baptism of infants also hold that baptism cannot be repeated.

However the point I was really trying to make is that christining means baptism, not dedication.

From dictionary.com:

chris·ten
–verb (used with object)
1. to receive into the Christian church by baptism; baptize.
2. to give a name to at baptism: They christened her Mary.
3. to name and dedicate: to christen a ship.
4. to make use of for the first time.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia article on baptism: "In English, the term christen is familiarly used for baptize. As, however, the former word signifies only the effect of baptism, that is, to make one a Christian, but not the manner and the act, moralists hold that 'I christen' could probably not be substituted validly for 'I baptize' in conferring the sacrament."

Back to the topic at hand.