Thread: Romney Bows Out
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Old 02-10-2008, 11:01 PM
EE-BO EE-BO is offline
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shiner- thank you for your reply and detailed clarification.

On the Europe issue we may have to just agree to disagree. I think the core of Europe's trouble has been a refusal to assimilate incoming immigrants. 100 years ago in the US there were politicians preaching the dangers of Jews, Italians, Irish and Chinese coming over here- yet thanks to assimilation anyone would laugh today at the idea that any of these ethnic groups pose a threat to American culture.

The brilliance of our general approach to life is that our culture bends and shifts. Chinese take-out is just American as apple pie. Immigrants shape and evolve our culture. This is not true in Europe which is really the last remaining bastion of royal bloodlines and the gentry in the world. Perhaps they had too many wars.

On social issues- fair point on your part. I detest how both sides run on emotional social issues and avoid talking about the substantive hard problems that need to be solved. I think Romney and Obama have been particulary vague in their campaigns- but I must concede is not a purely Romney issue.

I also agree with you that throwing money at the school system and other social problems won't work. We have tried and it doesn't work.

But I also think legislating certain social choices won't help either.

As I get on in life, I have come to have what might be a rather frightening sense that the disintegration of our culture is an inevitable result of wealth and prosperity. Growing up, I hated my parents for not getting a new BMW when I was 16 or sending me off to Europe with my friends every summer. Instead I took summer jobs etc. I was one of very few kids in my school who did not have everything handed out on a silver platter.

But looking at us all now- it is interesting to see how those of us who had to work for something and were pushed have all done very well in life, while many of the most spoiled among us have not. In fact, several people I went to high school with have committed suicide or died of cocaine overdoses. Almost all of them were trust fund babies without a care in the world.

I think we fall behind because we have it so easy. People come here from around the world at all levels- from immigrant labor to the hospitals where your average surgical staff is about the most diverse environment you will find- and they come here to work and to compete, and so many of us just don't have that drive because we do not vividly see the alternative until it is too late and we have waited too long to get educated and compete with people in our own age group.

Maybe I am wrong, but I am just not sure how morally-based government can fix that. I think people have to see hard reality for themselves before making taking the initiative to make hard moral choices about their behavior.

What bothers me most is that local governments have had to take over where the federal government has assumed power but failed to do anything. A growing number of state and city laws on immigration is a good example. Another would be zero-tolerance policies in the schools since they have to avoid lawsuits to remain solvent.

Infrastructure is a big one too. I am not saying Katrina was the government's fault. But it is one more example of how our lack of attention to maintaining our infrastructure is starting to cost us. Regardless of who was "to blame", if anyone, Katrina has cost the taxpayers a fortune.

The federal government has claimed a lot of powers- but is failing to act effectively on them. And I think that should be at the front of any discussion by the candidates. I rejected Obama and Romney from day one because they never went there- and that kind of honest talk would be risky, but I think rewarding for a candidate.

Anyhow- I do have a question for you and anyone else who would answer. I mean this seriously, not sarcastically, because I am not clear on the goal.

A lot of conservative pundits have said they would rather vote for a Democrat than a Republican that does not reflect the party's core values. What is the hoped result of that?

I ask because my gut reaction is that if the base feels that way, they will just get more and more out of touch as independent voters continue to dominate the process. It seems like this kind of attitude will hasten a major shift in the party.

The Democrats are in for an identity crisis as well I think with the Obama-Clinton race running so close. I think they will have an easier time rallying around Obama than Hillary, but it seems they also face a bitter choice like us once a nominee is selected.

Last edited by EE-BO; 02-10-2008 at 11:05 PM.
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