[dzrose93]

Originally posted by Alias23
"Apparently, Alias, we're going to have to just agree to disagree on this issue. I think that I made my points quite succinctly, and I did answer your questions to the best of my ability." -- dzrose93

You haven't answered anything. I've asked you one specific question twice and you refuse to answer it, probably because you don't know how to respond. Whites and minorities will never improve relations if White folks choose to dance around the issue or drop the subject every time discussions get difficult. I'll pose the same question again: Short of evidence that someone directly said they weren't letting her in because she was Black (which rarely happens in cases of discrimination), what SPECIFICALLY would it take to prove to you that she was turned away because of her race? Keep in mind what I said earlier about cases of discrimination and how they are judged.

There are several statements that I have made and issues that I have addressed that you have not commented on, probably because you don't know how to deal with them, but if you could just answer that one question I would really appreciate it. I would love to hear your response.

Please don't accuse me of side-stepping your questions, Alias. I HAVE answered your questions. If they weren't the answers you liked, I can't help that. Since you insist, I'll say it again:

I don't take a discrimination claim at face value. I need proof of wrongdoing before I jeopardize the reputation of an organization -- something concrete that shows Twilley wasn't given a bid merely because of her race.

Were the girls rude to her? Twilley says no.

Did they ignore her at the rush parties, make her feel ill at ease while she was there, or do anything else to show that she was being set apart from the rest of the rushees? Twilley, again, says no.

If any of those things had happened, then I would be the first to say, "yes, race may have played a part." However, the only "evidence" that we have is Twilley's word that she "thinks" she was discriminated against. I'm not calling her a liar, I just feel that we should hear more of the story - from both sides - instead of taking her claim at face value.

Once again, I'm not saying that race WASN'T the reason for the cut. I'm just saying that people shouldn't automatically jump to that conclusion simply because one person says it is. That's all.

Originally posted by Alias23
Living in the South doesn't make you an authority on what is and isn't racism. You come off as someone who has trouble understanding what it is. I am sure you are familiar with SOME forms of racism, but you seem to be unfamiliar with institutional racism or any racism that's not blatantly obvious. If you answer my previous question I will have a better understanding of what you feel makes a case of alleged racism valid or invalid.

I never claimed to be a racism expert. All I was trying to point out is that I've seen discrimination and racism firsthand, and am not blind to the fact that it exists. You seem to think that because I'm white, I can't understand the forms that racism can take. I assure you that I'm quite aware of both subtle and blatant cases of discrimination. BUT, because, like you, I wasn't present at the Alabama Rush parties, there is no way for me to know one way or the other if Twilley was discriminated against. And, since I simply can't be sure, I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon and protest against something that may not have even really happened.

Originally posted by Alias23
"However, quite frankly, I feel that some people are entirely too eager to cry "discrimination" when they don't get their way about something." -- dzrose

We can't ignore potential cases of racism because some people cry wolf. They have to at least be looked into and then they can be judged. Some women cry rape when they know it didn't happen, but that doesn't mean we can assume other cases are untrue. We have to investigate and then reach our conclusions.

I'm all for investigating and reaching conclusions. As long as people remember that the conclusion part should come AFTER the investigation part. My point is that many people jump to conclusions and automatically believe that a racism claim is fact before checking to make absolutely sure that it is. The NPC sororities at Alabama should be "innocent until proven guilty", but some people believe them guilty and feel that they should prove their innocence. Doesn't seem very fair to me.

Originally posted by Alias23
"You'll also find that some minority girls, aside from Twilley, were not offered bids during Rush. Should they be crying racism also?"

Maybe so. Sometimes other victims come forward after one person breaks the ice -- just like in cases of rape.

Please don't pick apart my statements to find one quote that suits you. My original words stated that there are ALREADY minority members in NPC houses at Alabama, which disproves the theory that the NPC groups are against the idea of non-white members. To me, that shows that the girls are interested in choosing rushees who will be assets to their organizations, regardless of what the color of their skin may be. Also, if I were a minority rushee who didn't receive a bid, I would have a hard time justifying a discrimination claim knowing that I'd met sorority members who were also "minorities" during the rush parties.

Originally posted by Alias23
"It appears that we have differing opinions, Alias. But I would appreciate it if you would not assume that I am "out of touch" just because my viewpoint is different. I assure you that I am an intelligent woman who has a very firm grasp on the real world." -- dzrose

You may very well be intelligent and understand the real world -- YOUR real world. I'm not criticizing your overall intelligence, just your understanding of discrimination. I didn't assume you were out of touch because your opinion was different, but because you have been unable to back it up and have dodged the questions I have asked you. I am only trying to understand your point of view, but it seems you are scared to address the difficult points because all you do is repeat the same things over and over again. Please help me understand your way of thinking by answering my question, then maybe both of us can learn and make progress.

I am not scared to address difficult points on any issue. If you'd been on these boards longer, you would know that I rarely, if ever, "dodge" any questions asked of me. If I'm repeating the same things over and over, it's because I feel that my points have been made very clearly, and I have nothing further to add. Once again, I'm sorry if you don't like my answers. But asking a question over and over isn't going to make me change my opinion on an issue. Perhaps we should follow my previous suggestion and agree to disagree.