[TKErd345]

We've never hazed any of our pledges, and we're currently #2 in numbers at my chapter. People learn because they want to, and all of our pledges become very close friends with us, even before they get initiated, and the ones who drop for whatever reason, family, time, job, etc, are still good friends with us. We make education fun and they like learning. So don't tell me that I'm trying to justify hazing at my chapter, because we are a very stand up chapter, who follows the rules to the letter. Mmkay? That being said, I was trying to prove a point, but I guess everyone has to go all out and get technical, and COMPLETELY MISS my point. Read my message again, shadokat, and don't try to look at the smaller details, but get the big picture, ok? Wether or not a pledge wants to learn the alphabet, if he/she learns it, EVEN IF THEY WANTED TO, it's still hazing because it's mental stress/harm, etc... ok? That's what I'm trying to get across to people. That the definition of hazing is too stupidified for anyone to do anything. In response to something you said, asking a pledge to wear a pin, of course they're not going to say no. But whatever... I don't think you remember how you were when you were a pledge.. I know I was proud when I got my pin, and nobody needed to ask me to wear it. I wanted to wear it so bad. All of our members love their chapter and all of their brothers, and that's that. We didn't have to go through hazing and all this crap. So my point of view is that all the people that we have, we have chosen wisely. And to quote you "I guess the question I ask is if you're choosing new members who aren't willing to do the tasks required to gain membership into your organization, then maybe you're not choosing new members wisely?", I must take from that question that you guys haze hardcore. We don't have a series of tasks that our pledges have to go through.. They just become our friends and over time, much more... aka brothers! Oh, and you wanna know something else? Depledging is also hazing! Don't believe me? "PERSONAL DEGRADATION OR DISGRACE". I think you will get what I'm saying. Btw, I know absolutely everything that TKE stands for, and I don't need you to remind me. Especially since you don't know even 1% of what I do. OK? Peace