[Low C Sharp]

It's just difficult to explain the reasoning to people who do accept them when they already feel so strongly.

Respectfully, I believe it's hard for you to explain your reasoning because this isn't an opinion you reached through a process of logical reasoning. It's an emotional gut reaction. That doesn't make it evil, but it does make it pretty pointless to try to back it up with reasoning.

Also, I don't understand why it matters whether homosexuality is biologically determined. We know very well that being a Baptist is not biologically determined. But we also know that being one -- or not being one -- goes right to the core of many people's sense of self. We all understand that while people sometimes have a religious change of heart during life, it's almost impossible to join or abandon a religion just because you WISH your beliefs would change. Faith is too close to the core of your being to be denied.

I think that most of us further agree that it's morally wrong to hate 5 million people you've never met because they are Methodist instead of Catholic. The fact that religion is not innate and immutable like race has nothing to do with the immorality of religious bigotry.

For having overly strict morals? I'm not sure what you're saying there.

That's what I was asking about when I posed the question about the kind of teetotaling, virginity-pledging rushee who'd call the police if he saw underage drinking in the house. Is that kind of guy an ideal candidate for your Christian-based organization with its high ethical standards? Or is he just too darn moral to fit into the group? I bet it's the latter.

This isn't a debate about whether it is the right thing to do, or whether the group is hypocritical. The debate is whether a fraternity might legitimately decide to not offer membership in part because of the potential member's moral deficiencies.

How come you get to decide the terms of the debate? I'm arguing that if you (meaning any fraternity, not just yours) claim that you're excluding gay people on moral grounds, you better welcome teetotaling virgins, or you're a dishonest hypocrite. That's quite germane to the question of "legitimacy." Generally, I view dishonest and hypocritical actions as illegitimate.

In other words, if you exclude gay people because you don't like them, you should come right out and say so. Right now that's perfectly legal in most of the country. I may conclude that you're a bigot, but I'll agree that it's a legitimate decision.
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