Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman
The colonialist mentality is still strong in French society, except now the colonies are migrating there for economic opportunities and they don't want them there.Thus the faux solution is to "ghettoize" them as a permanent foreign underclass with frightful consequences.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum
I'm with you both that the racism and colonial attitudes of the traditional European French cause the majority of the problem.
But don't you think the religion of the minority group also contributes to some self-ghettoizing behavior? Some of the tension that may have its roots in economic issues seems to manifest itself as a rejection of the secularism and unifying culture of the French state, which then compounds the problem.
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Definitely more in France/French speaking societies than British. Herouxville, a small town in Quebec adopted a "declaration" stating that everyone had to "fit in" with what the town considered "normal." Most were directed at more traditional cultures, especially those from the middle east and south Asia (e.g. stating that kids can't take weapons, including those for religious ceremonies to school, that boys and girls can't be separated in public pools, etc...). But at the same time, one of the latest "Mariannes," considered a symbol of France, was non-white. As for the British, I can only speak from a Hong Kong Chinese perspective, but I don't really see any unsuccessful immigrants from Hong Kong, despite it being a former colony. Most Chinese in any English speaking country seem to fit into so-called middle class society pretty well, and unlikely to see rebellion.
On self-segregation: Yeah, I think sometimes, people just don't *WANT* to fit in and may criticize those who do. There are plenty of new immigrants in Canada who have no interest in even learning/hearing about what many other Canadians see as, well "Canadian." If they only watch TV on channels in their own language, buy DVDs in their language/culture, read newspapers in their language/culture and refuse to learn about anything else and consider that "outside" culture foreign and corrupt, then there are issues. We have it here in Toronto. I'm sure it's the same in the US and other countries.
I once worked with a (Canadian born) Muslim girl of South Asian descent who was very upset to find out that another co-worker also Muslim and of South Asian (but didn't come to Canada until high school) descent dates, smokes and drinks (it wasn't any of Girl #1's business to begin with). She was also surprised to find out that other immigrant cultures whom are often seen as "traditional" really aren't. She rolled her eyes when she found out that neither my parents nor a co-worker's parents (who is also of Chinese descent) had an arranged marriage and that my maternal grandmother's young womanhood was probably as Carrie Bradshaw-esque as you can get in WWII Macau (though Poh Poh was not a columnist but a bookkeeper in a shop)...except my grandfather was definitely NOT a Big. More like Aidan, but not really...
Things like this might get better though. 100 years ago, people thought Chinese people were really weird and even enacted laws preventing Chinese (and other Asian) immigration. Today, while some still find Chinese weird/odd, it seems that most Chinese fit in with what the west considers "normal," even if they are new to the country. Maybe in a couple of decades things will change for other cultures too.