[Kevin]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Kevin--

Most of the time agree with you.

Thanks.

But these statement. Can you be any more heartless and so hardened? Do you call yourself a Christian with your kind of thinking? Stewardship, Lovingkindness and Charity? These ideals are all parts of LOVE... We Christians are called to follow one last commandment to "love one another"... Who are you on that trail to Jericho?

I think you confuse Christian compassion with something else. On the one hand, I've been involved in plenty of charitable good works type things. My wife is a dedicated teacher at an inner city charters school and I do plenty to help out there

But Christian compassion for your fellow man is one thing. It's virtuous, good, etc.

Using your government to enforce Christian compassion via taxation of your fellow man (who may not be a compassionate Christian) and wealth redistribution (basically at the point of a gun) is quite another thing.

I think it's important to differentiate the two because this conversation really (in my mind) only reaches governmental policy.

You are turning your back on humanity. Another name it is called idolatry--attempting to be beyond the view of God.

Our government is one for people, not one for a particular religion, any religion or some moral persuasion. I think it's civilized, not Christian for society to care for those who truly cannot provide for themselves.

I think it's immoral for society to force its members to give of themselves to support others who simply choose not to work.

And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

- Luke 11:9

It seems that even the Christian religion would ask that people put forth a little effort to better themselves whether it be spiritually, I think as Luke is discussing or physiologically.

Also, it goes without saying that people who choose not to work and instead rely on society's good will to feed them are literally stealing food from the mouths of those who are unable to go to work. So yes. Let them starve.

Fact is, in the course of life you NEVER KNOW if loss of everything including your mind and credibility can happen. Just ask Job, if you think it doesn't. And guess what, folks that lose everything think it would NEVER happen to them in a million years.

The thing is -- a person who can get it all and lose it can usually scrape their way back up to the top. I'm not advocating that we take away from those who use the system for what it was designed for -- a temporary safety net. I'm saying we cut off those who have made it a way of life.

I don't want to get into the details, but of course, this would involve opportunities for rehabilitation, plenty of warnings, etc. I'm not advocating we simply cut them off, but I am saying that we decide to stop allowing people to victimize society and themselves by allowing such an open ended system.

So, it is prudent to show some humility and without prejudice. Because ultimately, you will die someday... And if you believe in God and Christ, then you will have to explain that dash in between your birthdate and death date.

But first, I'll explain it to you Hope I've cleared things up.

Now, I know you support many wonderful things and several positive forces in your life have provided aspects in your life to bequeathed you with the degrees, knowledge and training for the career of your wildest dreams. You have been truly blessed to be in your position. However, many extremely impoverished people have criminal records.

So do a lot of my wealthy friends from high school and college. People are capable of making really stupid decisions in life. Those who do must suffer the consequences. At some point, we, as a society must recognize that folks have to be ultimately responsible for themselves (assuming they are physically and mentally capable).

I just attended a graduation ceremony this afternoon at my wife's school. The challenges these kids contend with, being kicked out of their parents' homes, in one case, even being taken in by a teacher, drugs, gangs, fights, reality, etc. is amazing. That these kids could carry a full AP load and actually make it through high school, the vast majority going on to college is a truly amazing thing. Many of these kids rely on Oklahoma City's piss poor bus system to get to and from school every day. I saw one get a full ride to Macalester and another to Clemson straight from the ghetto. These kids took that 'impossible' adversity many in this thread have discussed -- and they kicked its sorry ass

-- So it ain't impossible.

Sure, these kids might have stratospheric IQ's, but they did overcome some pretty monumental stuff.

So, inevitably we, the taxpayers, wind up paying for them anyway... I would prefer remediation, with homeless assistance and education rather than prison anyday. It is cheaper in the longrun. And now the poor recividism from prison release without proper retraining has become a public health issue.

Me too. I agree completely. We need to stop pouring money into dead ends and dead beats and expect something back from them. You want that government paycheck? Terrific. Learn to weld, sew, type. You have 6 months, then the money dries up. If you want to reapply, a social worker will have to reassess your need and whether or not you made a real effort to get a job - what's not working, etc.

All people deserve dignity... That is a Geneva Convention under the world court.

We are not subject to the world court

Further, the Geneva Convention does not protect non-combatents. Just ask the good folks at Guantanamo.

Overt starvation without the state's attempt to improve it is a human rights violation, moreover, it is tortuous for government agencies not to protect the dignity and rights of all its people within its borders.

It's even worse for those people nto to protect their own dignity. If the state could develop a comprehensive rehabilitation program, stop paying people to make babies, give all people in poverty a reasonable means out, then yes, I think we at some point have to be able to say "enough is enough."

Or maybe $21/week'll do?