[Kevin]

Originally Posted by tld221

again, fair enough. what im saying is that not everyone is willing to take advantage to what is there. i mean, just because someone is giving out something doesnt mean you should automatically take it. people have their reasons. who are you to judge?

If they're asking me for my money, they're asking me to judge whether or not they're worthy of my money. If they're scurrying around the streets hitting people up for money, invading their privacy and space, again, it's my business to judge.

i'm leaping just as much as you are. and yes, im stereotyping you just as much as youre stereotyping the homeless. now what?

Am I really leaping to say that people who are capable of remaining on their feet all day long, trying to con people out of money are physically capable of other kinds of work, particularly if they take the time to invest a little in themselves? I don't believe that's a leap at all. The fact is that those who do not avail themselves of such services remain on the streets. Why should I or anyone finance that choice? I know for a fact that these services are out there. If someone *chooses* not to take advantage of opportunities, again, their problem.

i don't need warm and fuzzies, especially on an internet message board from the likes of your opinions. and no, i can agree with you to an extent that some folks are homeless due to bad choices. there are consequences to everything. now should you reach in your pocket everytime a homeless person asks you for it? not at all. but again, you dont know what choices that person made to get to standing in front of you begging.

Considering the other choices I know for a fact that he or she has available to them, you're wrong. It may not be the case in your immediate area, so you shouldn't be casting such a wide net. I know *exactly* what services are available down here. Like I said before, I even did a little volunteer work for the job training/placement service (which is located near the homeless shelter for a reason). I know for a fact that this place does not get near the amount of 'business' that it is set up to handle. It is not an unreasonable inference at all to say that these unemployed, homeless people simply do not want to take advantage of a program which will train them, move them if necessary and find a job for them free of charge.

again, you're cutting-and-drying.

When I'm able to know that there is an out available to anyone with a working body and mind, I'm able to do that. If I can say with some degree of certainty that people are choosing to or not to take advantage of free services to help them reintegrate into society, then almost without exception (and I say almost because there's probably some situation which hasn't occurred to me) these people are making a choice not to work and to be homeless. Society does not owe you or I a living. It does provide opportunities. You either take advantage of those or you piss them away.

see, and im going to stop you there. you can't really say "if i was..." in a situation like this. you (we, as in the fortunate) can afford to think in idealistic terms versus realistic terms. but since youre claiming im painting an unrealistic picture of pride, then i guess we're even huh?

You're right, your assertion doesn't pass the smell test.

You're suggesting that someone who is hitting individuals on the street up for cash, dealing with a lot of rejection and spite, knowing that they are creating an uncomfortable situation for others has more "pride" than someone who simply gets in line at a soup kitchen or signs up for a program to help them get back on their feet.

[quote]Sure. 1 point for Kevin, 1 point for tld221.

sure:
1. "They aren't really all that bad off." yes, some of them really are that bad off. and dont even come at me saying "i wasnt speakiing for all, just some." you used "they" and that encompasses an enitre group youre stereotyping.

Substitute "they" for "many." Some aren't that bad off. Some, in fact, make a better living than I do (tax free) on public charity.

2. "If they're able to... they can definitely work." again, i disagree. i implore you to hire someone off the streets then if you feel that way.

As I have repeated here, there is a program downtown which by the way is not even near capacity which specializes in finding employment for these folks. I understand you're not well acquainted with downtown Oklahoma City. If they're able to, they absolutely can work.

3. "I'd never be in that sort of position." Never say never pal... i just hope your world doesnt come crashing down anytime soon.

Don't worry, it won't. I'm well prepared for any eventuality which may befall me (at least financially).

4. "...so that I'll give them money to buy alcohol/drugs with." yeah, that's what ALL the homeless folks are doing, drugging and boozing up with your nickels and dimes. maybe theyre trying to grab a cheap bite from mcdonalds to take a break from same ol soup at the church down the street?

Beggars can't be choosers. Statistically speaking, I'm going to be more correct on this one than you are. Drug and alcohol dependency is a big reason people end up on the street.