[blueangel]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Whoa, first time pregnant mammals often get dystocia. As well as rectal prolapse--both sexes. There is no proof of all the pathologies you listed that are outside the realm that normally happens with piss poor animal husbandry...

We are ONLY DISCUSSING FDA and USDA approved farms and facilities that do these kinds of things. Not some random "Joe Farmer" that sleeps with his cows...

This study shows otherwise:

“64% of cattle, 40% of sheep, and 93% of mice exhibit some form of abnormality. A large percentage ofthese animals die during gestation or shortly after birth…In cattle [abnormalities] include large offspringsyndrome, diabetes, pulmonary hypertension, dilated cardiomyopathy, internal hemorrhaging umbilicalartery, viral infection, dystocia, kidney problems, leg malformations, pneumonia, heart defects, liverfibrosis, osteoporosis, joint defects, anemia, and placental abnormalities..."

Jorge Piedrahita, et.al., "Somatic Cell Cloning: The Ultimate Form of Nuclear Reprogramming?," J. Am. Soc. Nephrol 15:1140-1144, 2004.

Other studies include:
Merritt McKinney, "Flawed genetic Omarking" seen in cloned animals," Reuters Health May 29, 2001

"Aberrant methylation of donor genome in cloned bovine embryos," Nature Genetics 2001;28:173-177

The point is cloned meat in our food supply is a DONE DEAL. There ain't shit you or I can do about it. Your only option is to NOT EAT FOOD AND STARVE, PERIOD.

Why do you think the FDA did not put this concept up for public debate? Archer Midland and ConAgra has a billion more dollars than you and I put together. For every $1 they've got a Billion more...

Actually, you are incorrect. The FDA will be accepting public comments on the three documents outlining guidelines for the introduction of animal clones into our food chain until April 2.

That's bullisht and you know it. No sane public health expert would agree to that concept.

That concept is waaay outside of evolution that it fails to follow rigorous scientific examination and thought. There is NO correlation that autism is directly caused by "frankenfood" consumption. And Autism as a disease is caused during development, at best it caused by poor maternal health than food consumption. And recently scientists id'ed several genes involved in autism that have to do with visual perception and similar pathways in the dopamine neurotransmitter system... The only way that dopamine metabolism can be affected is if the mother is an illegal substance abuser... Eating food does NOT make a mother a substance abuser.

I never said there was correlation between autism and "frankenfood" consumption. I said that with the amount of "frankenfood" in our food supply, there is no way to track it, and no way to tell how safe or how dangerous our food supply is.

We simply do not know.. and that is the point. The FDA allows all of this into our food supply without knowing what the long term effects are. Right now, there is a sharp increase in autism. Why? Are you trying to say that all mothers of autistic children are illegal substance abusers? If not, then what is causing this sharp increase? Obviously something has changed over the last decade or so.

Now the FDA wants to introduce yet another unknown in to our food supply.. cloned meat. Even the FDA will no conclusively say it is safe. They will only qualify it by saying that "it appears to be safe." Again, we are being made to be guinea pigs.

Okey first, you are misrepresenting and distorting the facts. Insulin growth factor-1 (IGF-1) is made by all of us. Without it, we die. It is the major hormone that responds to our intake of food, like insulin.

Since all milk is required to be HOMOGENIZED and PASTEURIZED and before human consumption, then proteins are degraded. Meaning a salt solution is added to raw milk, to precipitate all the proteins out of it. Then the precipitate is used to generate: cheese, butter, cottage cheese, etc. Then pasteurization "bakes" the milk that follows a dialysis step to have a purified fraction of material--which then gets filtered. Just like our wine and beer goes through this process, so does our milk. It has been this way for over 50 years. Sometimes the process in inefficient and sometimes, there are failures. But there is lack of inspectors for these facilities or maybe there are payoffs. I am not all into conspiracy anymore.

If you would READ my posts before "reacting".. you would find that the source was not mine. I was pointing out to KC RC that his source actually refuted what he was trying to say when you read the entire article and didn't take it out of context.

Your capability to understand basic tenets of molecular biotechnology is poor. And if you are in a Ph.D. program, then you may need to reconsider and do something more commensurate of your abilities.

Whenever you get frustrated in a debate, you resort to personal attacks. Why is that?

Now, I have some questions for you, since you're such a proponent to cloning:

1. What is the success rate of somatic cloning of embryos to full term?

2. What is the frequency of late fetal loss??

3. Do you deny LOS is a problem in a statisticaly greater amount among cloned animals that DO survive, than their natural birth counterparts?

4. Getting back to economics.. if cloning a cow costs between $15,000 and $20,000... how many clones will there be? What about the dangers of inbreeding?

5. Why do cloned animals have a shorter lifespan than their natural birth counterparts? Why do so many have compromised immune systems? Higher incidence of tumor growth?

6. What is the incidence of abnormalities in successfully cloned animals?

7. What proof do you have that eating a cloned animal is safe, when the FDA can only say the meat of a cloned animal "appears" to be safe?