[ZZ-kai-]

I don't disagree with anything you said. It's pretty much right on, except, I would put my salary on it that most southern schools won't go local, as they'd never survive. Phi Delt at Ole Miss is prominent, but if they were to quit Phi Delt and go 'Omega Tau Phi' (or whatever), they'd get smaller rush classes, they'd lose some of their alumni support, and eventually would become run-of-the-mill chapter....but, I sense your slight exageration and again, do not disagree with what you said.

As for the hazing makes us appreciate brotherhood more comment - you could be no more wrong. Hazing came to about 100 years after Beta was around. We dominated the fraternity world the first 100 years - members, alumni, money, chapters, recognition...etc. - much like today EXCEPT all the other fraternities 'back then' didn't have 200 chapter like today. Something I'm fine with - I'd rather have 122 pretty damn strong Beta chapters, than 250 mediocre TKE chapters.

Anyway, hazing came in long after Beta, so to say one appreciates brotherhood more after going through the trenches, isn't really a fair statement - as Beta has been appreciating brotherhood well over 100 years longer than the first hazing incident.

Great discussion though - I'd love to hear other opinions.

-kai-