[lifesaver]

Wow, where to start. Its gotten real fratty.net up in here lately.

To be 21 an an expert in everything. Must be hard. Academically, no one will take you seriously when you use such blanket statements like "everyone." Even if its everyone you think you know, you dont really know everyone that well. Time will show you that people you think you know, you dont. All you know is yourself. Then once you get real close to graduation, you are gonna realize you dont even know yourself that well. It happens to everyone.

Fine, you dont have any gays in your top teir house. Fine, whatever. Just dont be suprised if in 15 years at homecoming former chapter president Jim shows up with his partner. I've seen it happen to everyones org. (on the fraternity side of things). Believe what you want about your particular org. But there is nothing inherent about it that is like gay bug spray and keeps homosexuals away. We all have gay people in our orgs. Get to a couple of your national conferences and you'll see what I am talking about. A big 'ol chunk of the real involved alums bat for the other team. Sure, its the 300 lb gorilla no one talks about, but its true. I've talked to them from several orgs (including yours). It dosent take a genius to figure it out, either. Older, no wife/kids, the time to get involved. They do it because the org has become their family. Dosent have anything to do with wanting to hook up with brothers. Sexuality is much more than the act of fucking. But thats a lot deeper than I imagine the conversation will go here in this thread. I somehow doubt the intellegence, patience, tolerance exists in here right now. I'm not gonna change your minds and that's fine. I just want you all to think about some things. If you think I am full of shit, just look at the next conference or ask your consultant the next time he comes for a visit. The older you get and the farther you move away from the emotion of the issue and realize it's not an attack on your chapter or your way of life, you'll see I'm right on this. Dosent have to be today. Dosent have to be this year. Come back in 10 years or whenever you're ready. You'll see I am right. (I'm still waiting on the V's to show back up with the indictments they swore they'd have by Nov. 2001.) I've been involved in greek life long enough now to know some of these things.

But on some of the specifics mentioned here, I gotta make a few comments. I know a couple of gay guys who talk about girls on a regular basis, and in a way where you couldnt tell they were gay. Some do it for cover at work. Some do it becuase it is a part of what our society considers it takes to be 'a guy' and other s do it because its how we often relate to each other as guys. Hell, my buddy Will is as queer as they get. (We call him Three-dollar Bill, lol) Straight acting, but likes dudes. He loves titty bars. Not necessarily for the turn-on of the ladies, but cause they are fun. Point of that is that as an undergrad, you tend to see the world as black and white, and when you get out into the world, it rarely is. Its usually a lot of gray.

Also, again with the blanket statements. I am a chapter advisor for a top teir chapter at a school in the south. The chapter has two undergrads who identify as gay. They also used to date. When they broke up, the world didnt end and the chapter didnt lose it's charter. I'm not gonna lie, the other brothers dont throw them out there as the first guys you see during rush, and I didnt expect they'd actually stay on through their new member period, but they did. Their brothers accept them for who they are. It's an interesting dynamic actually. The 'ground rules' they have mutually established are that the gay kids want to be treated like regular brothers and the rest of the chapter says OK. I roll up to a chapter meeting and they are messing with the gay kids. I try to speak to the guys after about it and they let me know they are treating them how they would if they were straight; by razzing them and giving them shit. Kyle hooks up with big girls, he gets grief for it. Mark is short, he gets grief for that. Cole likes guys, he gets grief for that. Point I am trying to make here is that it does happen, to top tier houses, in the south. I've seen it happen at simularily ranked chapters at universities all over Texas. Maybe not as undegrads, but it is something that each chapter and org has as members. If your chapter is all "down with the fags' then the gay brothers you have are sure as hell gonna wait till they graduate (this is where the term, gay at graduation comes from) to self identify or self announce.

I am also not trying to tell you or anyone that you have to take a gay rushee. If ya dont want a kid, just because he is gay, that's ya'lls right to make that determination. I dont know if the chapter I advise would make the same choices in the future that they did in the past. I am not going to force them to accept a guy just based on his orientation. As an advisor, I dont get involved in the specifics of bid extentions on individual members. Not my place. I'd hope they wouldnt turn a kid away who had a lot to offer cause he played on the other team. But if they did, another group would probably sign him and then they'd later wish they signed him. When I was an undergrad there was this kid we only thought was gay cause he dressed all goofy. We didnt even talk to him at orientation. He went ATO and they made him put on khakis and a button down, get a haircut. Next thing ya know he is a leader, seeing all these girls *AND* bringing his hot sister around the chapter. He was straight all along. Taught me not to judge a book. But if you think signing a gay kid would hurt your chapter then dont sign him. But if the kid lives on sportscenter, is a blue chip intramural player and you could never tell, (and he never did) would you still feel the same way? You might say yes now, but how much of that is pride? Truth is that none of us really know till we are in that situation. Again, I am just trying to get you to see that 1) the world isnt always as you think it is and 2) the world isnt always black and white. If you think it is, I'll be happy to refer you to a vendor of mine named Cami. For two years, she dated a guy named Paul who was the Sigma Chi chapter president up at A&M in the 90's. He still plays baseball with his alumni brothers during homecoming weeknd. Except now it's not Cami at his side. Its his husband, Greg.


BTW, can I have my sig back?