Fire Suppression Systems
 

Hey, guys: I saw a piece on the RM forum that dealt w/fires @ chapter houses. That got me to thinking...how many of our chapters have adequate fire suppression systems (sprinklers, halon, etc.)?

The Northwestern chapter has had discussions about this because the City of Evanston wants to have all GLOs sprinklered @ some point (the date keeps changing). My home chapter, Illinois State, hasn't had any talk about a sprinkler system to date.

This is an issue that's generally swept under the rug (out of sight, out of mind) because it's so pricey. For example, Northwestern's house (4 stories, brick construction from 1920's, full basement, sleeps 30-35 men) has had an estimate of $250K for installation "to code".

The problem is, "code" keeps changing and the prices keep escalating (an average of 10%/year).

Please share your thoughts on this issue (alums & UGs alike) - who knows, perhaps this is something that could be discussed @ the LS in Memphis...

In ZAX,
BF

Worthwhile topic for exploration and study!
 

I know that HQ had a loan program at one time to assist chapters in installing sprinklers. I cannot imagine a responsible House Corp not taking the needed steps to make sprinklers happen. Yes, it costs money, but when the insurance break is amortized out perhaps the added cost isn't so bad. If the annual debt service is $10,000 on a sprinkler loan and the insurance savings is $8,000 then the actual cost is $2,000 a year.

The inertia may come from the difficulty some House Corp members have in dealing with numbers. At Cal it was a no-brainer given the composition of our board. For others it may take some selling. A good sales job by the High Pi, the guy that knows the kids best,and would have to deal with the parents should there be a loss, may be the best salesman of all.

Perhaps a survey of sorts might be in order: Who has sprinklers? How did you pay for them? What is the net cost (loan minus insurance savings)? Did your university assist in financing?

Would be a worthwhile topic for exploration. Short of a block party with an open bar sponsored by Budweiser with Jello wrestling on a beach, a chapter house fire is the scariest thing that I can imagine.

And coming from a lawyer, that says a great deal!

We had a fire at Texas in '84 and there was a death. We read about a couple of house fires every year. If we have a chapter without sprinklers at this late date then we might well get smacked and smacked hard by a jury. And no responsible plaintiff lawyer would EVER settle a fraternity house fire out of court. That's just leaving money ont he table.

Bill, is this not the crux of the problem? Costs, costs and costs.

Beleive me, no one more than me wants to see a Brother of LXA or anyother Greek Organization lose a member.

But as many of us know, there is a shortage of cash in many Chapters and to raise dues for this type of project can and will either close many chapters or keep new chapters from starting.

At one time and I am not sure if IHQ still has a program of low cost loans to chapters got sprinkler systems. But in a retro fit of old large houses, the cost will still be extensivly high.

So in essence, where does that leave Greek Houses?

Tom, I think it depends on the school or municipal code.

Gamma Zeta had to have them installed during the major renovations in the 80's to have it up to date. If we didn't do the renovations, we wouldn't have needed the sprinklers since the lack of them would have been grandfathered in.

More and more towns and cities are cracking down on non-campus student housing.

Yes is and does. A knee jerk reaction is always the thing to do.

It seems that the grandfather clause is being more trampled on.

I am sure that if all of us had a wish, it would be to have sprinkler systems in all houses that hold more than even a few members.

Unfortunately a grandfather clause does not serve to vitiate liability. Just because a grandfather clause says that sprinklers need not be installed would not necessarily equal a jury saying no liability.

The argument "But we meet the code" doesn't work. The Titanic met all applicable codes and was still short of lifeboat space! Sprinklers are a basic safety item. You can't get a hotel room without them now - at least in a room built within the last 20 years or so. Some houses now have them. Dorms have them. If we have a fire in a house that lacks them I just don't want to be in that courtroom when the jury returns with the verdict.

John, once again your point is well taken as while only a few if any on G C have ever been in the same situation of losing a Brother/Sister in a fire. I include myself of course.

That is the main reason or part of it to demolish our "Old Peice of Crap House". It was a disastor waiting for a place to happen.

Would I love to see supresion systems in every house/dorm, you bet!

As I mentioned in another thread, I fought for it, but many things were put into place for it other than sprinklers.:(

There needs to be a seminar on what should be done and what not done with certain items with flames to try to keep it down from problems happening. We hope!

It really is a cost issue. Ideally every residential house everywhere would have a sprinkler. Of course, ideally every house would have new electrical, special insulation, fire retardant sheet rock and so on.

Really, everyone should follow the basic common sense rules: no candles, watch the stove while cooking, don't smoke in the house, don't cover fire detectors, don't overload circuits, keep objects away from heating sources, don't use too high a wattage bulb, no matches or lighters, and on and on.

Unfortunately, some people lack that common sense.

True, it is a cost issue, but should there ever be an incident at a house that lacks a sprinkler system I have no doubt that one line of questioning would focus on how money was spent on items other than sprinklers. A BBQ pit might not result in an angry jury, but a swimming pool instead of sprinklers might.

I don't know if the general fraternity has a census of chapters houses and their sprinkler status but if we don't then it might be a worthwhile task for the ELCs when they visit. Not to smack, but to gather data. We could then use that data to put together a strategy to install fire supression systems in the houses that lack them.

We owe this to our undergraduates, their families, and to ourselves.

But John, a swimming pool is so much better than a sprinkler system. We can just equip each room with a plastic bucket and during a fire, have the brothers fill up at the pool!!!!

The thing is, there are so many more urgent structural needs chapter houses need before a $100,000 sprinkler system. If it's up to a chapter to take out a mortgage or significantly raise their rents for a sprinkler system, most chapters would vote no, and I can't really blame them.

Coming from a chapter that suffered from a large house fire, I can tell you that they can quickly end the future of a chapter. Luckily no one died at our house but following the fire the chapter has taken almost 10 years to rebuild itself.

While the initial expense of a sprinkler system may seem stagering, it is cheaper to install it in a new building than to renovate the house.

UF was very effective in encouraging chapters to install fire supression systems, they have a point system for fire inspections, with 100 points resulting in no social events at the house. A house that lacked a fire system automatically got 90 points.

Kappa-Omega at Georgetown had the system put in about 10 years ago or
less. Of course our house is a dorm 2/3-owned by the college, so it was the
college's decision/bill. But it works!

Two small drawbacks:
A BIG UGLY box with huge pipes running to the ceiling was installed in the
foyer...right where we used to hang our 1928-30 ThKN composites, first
thing you see when you walk in the front door. UGLY UGLY UGLY.

Also, whenever the guys burn popcorn or smoke in the halls, the firetrucks
show up! lol!

Oh, and by the way....anytime popcorn is burnt on a college
campus, even if the alarms don't go off and there's no fire, the state fire
marshal must be contacted and a report made.....STATE LAW!! lol!
(I see this notice posted in the break rooms with microwaves all over
UKy's campus)