Questions for Law Grads/Students.
 

I got a question let's say you took the LSAT over a year ago. Scored a 155 (I know, it's kind of shitty) and you applied to a private lawschool in south florida, got accepted but then decided against it and went into business for yourself. After being in business for over a year you decide "Hey! Now that I know and have worked in the field of insurance maybe I ought to go law school, graduate, pass the bar and work for StateFarm, Allstate, Liberty Mutual etc etc etc as one of their attorneys." My question is, what do you have to do if you applied and got accepted but didnt go. Do you have to re-apply for admittance. And are your LSAT scores good for life or is there some of statute of limitations theory where you can only have that score valid for a certain amount of time?

Any one here go to or have graduated from University of Miami's Law School?

I'm pretty sure LSAT's are good for 5 years. Don't know about your letters of rec, etc.

If you applied and were accepted, but turned them down (and didn't defer your acceptance- some people may do that and defer for a year), you most likely need to reapply.

I'm sure you can just call the school or send them an email.

Or if you want to try to go to a better school you can retake the LSATs, but some schools average the two scores.

Just think carefully about whether you're sure you want to do this, lol

You have to reapply unless you deferred your admission rather than accepted it. LSAT scores are good for I want to say 5 years - you can double check it at LSAC.org.

I believe the website also tells you how different schools weigh the LSAT's.

Also it may not be so easy to get a job with an insurance company as in house counsel. For one, I think most of them tend to hire already experienced attorneys. I'm sure you know people, but sometimes even that doesn't help. For another thing, more and more they're contracting out the work to law firms in the particular area. I guess they're finding it more economical. Some offices are getting rid of their legal departments or significantly cutting back.

In my job pretty much ever defendent was an insurance carrier so I saw a lot of this and heard a lot of the attorneys talking about it when I went to hearings.

But there's good money in it working for a firm. I really wouldn't mind doing insurance work

This is all so true. The firm I work for does insurance defense work almost exclusively. What you could do is work for a firm like that and gain experience in the legal field and then if carriers hire people in house you could go that route or stay at the firm. One of the senior associates at the firm used to work in insurance, as an adjuster I think, and now is a really good insurance defense attorney. E-mail me if you have any specific questions!

The letters of rec arent a problem, I can get those again easily if needed. I didnt defer my acceptance. I kind of just fell off the planet in their eyes. What I did, which is kind of sneaky, is I told my dad I wanted to go into business for myself instead of LS, took the money he would have used to pay for it, asked my grandfather for an investment sum and bought a book of business from an insurance agent (his actual clientel book) with my father and grandfather as the backing investors inorder to get the loan to buy it. Over the course of the past year I've doubled the book of business from what it was when I first attained it while making a commercial (business) name for myself and learned the commercial side of insurance inside and out while having the women in the office do the personal lines (home-auto-life-bonds). This was my intent originally and then go to LS after learning the industry and especially the commercial/corporate side of insurance inorder to give me an edge over other law grads looking for jobs with insurance companies. The problem is since my LSAT score wasnt that great and I pretty much bailed on Miami, I don't know if I had to re-apply or if I needed to retake the LSAT due to my score being outdated/invalid. My other concern is that if I did retake the LSAT and my score was worse, would it lessen my chances of getting in a decent LS? Its not something I wanted to discuss with my family members because they'd flip out once they realized what I did despite it being an smart move in my eyes because of all the money and financial backing involved. Either way, the business itself would pay for the LS tuition and after I graduated (if I do decide to to do it) it would continue churning out commissions to me as long as I still owned the book of clientel in both Jacksonville and most recently Miami. Another concern is that I know during your 1st year in LS many schools if not all in my state do not allow you to work. On paper and according to the IRS I'd definitely be working but physically I wouldn't, I'd have another Agent actually running the agencies. Do LawSchools check with the IRS to verify whether or not you are working or not? And do any of you have any experience in this sort of situation or know of someone who does? I've spoken to the man in Florida who is basically mister insurance himself (he's who I got my license through) who basically helps write the laws in Florida for lesgislators to pass/enact. He's the one who came up with the idea of having only one deductible for multiple windstorm/hail (hurricane) claims after last years 4 hurricanes hitting Florida since the people were pissed off for having to pay 4 different deductibles for 4 different storms when many insureds were hit multiple times last summer. One of his daughters did somewhat of the same thing I'm doing but rather than actually owning a book of business/multiple books she worked for a company after getting her license in Florida, went to lawschool/graduated and was hired on the spot in Atlanta with a healthy six figure salary. So my question on this would be, how can you get by working or owning a business while attending LS and not get caught doing so?

You could also wait longer to go to school and spend a little more time getting to know and making contacts in the insurance industry.
My next door neighbor is an attorney and she went directly from law school to an in house job at a mutual fund. That's normally practically impossible to do but she had worked for a few years at a mutual fund before going to law school. She didn't go back to the same company but the experience put her in a great position.
To be perfectly honest, this kind of sounds like an afterthought on your part, rather than an actual passion for insurance or the law. First you applied to law school. Then, you decided not to go. Now, you've worked for a year, and you're giving that up to try to go to law school, so that you can go into another job. If I were you, I would work a little longer. Get some experience. Meet some people. Figure out what you really want to do. Being a lawyer in an insurance company is very diferent from working in insurance.
Three years is a long haul and the chances that you are going to come out of it with even an interest in insurance, never mind a job in the industry, because of your year long job in insurance is really pretty small.

Its not that I'll be "getting out" of it. I'd still have the businesses for as long as I want them. Its just another source or revenue. I have plenty of contacts as it is through family members, friends of family members and relatives of friends. For example, my grandfather and Tom Gallagher (Florida's chief financial officer aka head of insurance) are fishing and hunting buddies. My uncle, who was a senator, helped write the "tort reform" law in the 80s. So contacts are not a problem. This is why I chose to get in this industry prior to going to LS. But you're right, insurance is NOT a passion of mine. lol. Being a professional club goer around the world would be my passion. ;) I decided not to go to LS right out of college for many reasons. For starters I wanted to already have a source of decent income in case I failed in LS, I also did it because I don't believe in putting all your eggs (financial hopes) in one basket. That and I needed a break from school. But I do see what you're saying by having more than just 1 year exp in the industry, it's just I don't believe in procrastinating anymore like I did in college.

If I were you I would think long and hard if you want to put in the time/work/studying/sacrifices for law school. The ABA says you can't work more than 20 (I think, or 25) hours per week if you're a full time student, but if you go part time you can work as much as you want. I really wouldn't risk being shady with the ABA and going full time while working full time...just a recommendation. However, if you just have income I think that's fine and it's not considered working unless you're actually working. A lot of people have outside income and still are in school full time.
Let me just say again though, don't go to law school because it's something to do. It's a shitload of work and most people end up hating it or not practicing after a couple years. It's a lot of money to spend and a lot of bullshit to just say you're an attorney while doing something completely unrelated to law.

If the school you attend belongs to NALP you will have to sign a document agreeing not to work your first year. I believe that NALP distinguishes b/w working and having income from a business owned by you.

Since when do they do this? Just curious, I totally don't remember doing that at all. They would bitch at us big time if we worked, but they really couldn't DO anything about it. My friend Lisa worked a lot, but her jobs were very flexible and allowed her time to study.

If you're not a strong student, I would NOT recommend working first year.

Hmmm, I don't recall signing anything either. It was more of an unspoken rule that you shouldn't do it.

And to add onto what Dani said, if you're not a strong student, I wouldn't recommend going to law school PERIOD. ;)

Well whats your definition of a strong student? I was a good student in classes that I liked. And frankly, I'd love to take a constituitonal law class for starters. Being a history guru and in the insurance business (having an interest in knowing laws and cases), it'd probably be my thing. When I was 12 yrs old my dad and grandfather were quizzing me on English Common Law. Besides, I already have the attitude needed for the stereotypical law boy....what do you think, OtterXO? :p


The pikeness in me tells me I'd be doing for the chicks. :D The other part of me says I'd be doing it as a financial investment/gain and a possible political future.

My law school never "checked up" on whether I was working. They never asked me to sign a NALP form saying I wouldn't work, either. But they did tell us that NALP prohibits working within the first year and they told us it was "strongly recommended" that we comply. I don't think that you would be doing would be "working" since you don't go to work, and I doubt anyone would care. Furthermore, if you are found to be violating the NALP rule, the only thing the school will do is prohibit you from doing on campus recruiting, which it doesn't sound like you'll need with your connections.
What I would say is, if you think this is something you could benefit from and you're doing it for the $$$, go someplace inexpensive. You'll get the most bang for your buck and you'll probably be around more business and non-traditional students than you average type-A law school go-getters. The truth is with good connections you can overcome a less than fabulous school, and good grades (or at least decedent grades) are still good grades. You may also want to consider a part time program, so that you can continue your business full-time.