JFK thread
 

I figured we could discuss JFK in this thread. What do some of you think about him as a person and as a president? Who do you think was behind is murder? Why do you think he was murdered? Do you think the Kennedys were trying to build a monarchy?

Lets try to keep it calm.

I respect JFK as a person, and I respect some of the things he stood for when he was in office.

A trip last year to his Presidential Library in Boston was a very interesting experience...sure it's one-sided, but paints a cheery view of him, lol.

A side note: Did you know there is a JFK Memorial in Israel?

http://www.aaronsbibleuniversity.com...srael/117b.jpg

http://www.frommers.com/destinations...088020607.html

History generally paints a good picture of JFK. It's difficult to say if the praise is deserved or part of the mystique. I tend to think it is deserved. He did implement some decent tax cuts that helped the economy and he saw us through the missile crisis (though some would say he had a hand in its cause). Since he didn't have the opportunity to complete a term, we'll never really know how good he may have actually been. As far as the Kennedy’s wanting to establish a monarchy, all I can say is that I am glad that Ted never became president. It was interesting to see so many of the Kennedy clan showing support for CA’s new moderate Republican Governor. All in the family I guess. I kept it calm... lol.

There was a recent documentary (either History or PBS, NOT the made for TV movie) on him that listed his extensive use of drugs. One was used for back pain (think Rush Limbaugh). He had an obsession about appearing youthful and any weakness was hidden from the general public. Also, according to this "show" he had a Doctor that would come through the back door and supply him with the pills.

It is not contested that he had an eye for the women and cheated on Jackie numerous times. (Bill Clinton) Many felt that Bobby was the real brains in the family and would have been a great president had he not been murdered. Yet, JFK inspired the youth of our country to raise their voices and there is greatness in that.

Bay of Pigs...the slaughter. A leak exposed our young men's exact location. What would it be like now if we had been successful?

I was a child, but right after his death, we flew into the Dallas airport and these "old men" were passing out cigars and expressing their joy that he had died... I cried because being a Catholic, I felt like that was part of their glee. I honestly believe it was.

Like 9-11, the day Kennedy was shot is a day everyone remembers what they were doing. I was watching Pollyanna.
How ironic is that?

I believe it was a conspiracy. Maybe not like Oliver Stone, but from what I have read, Oswald was not the kind of man who had the intelligence to pull it off. There is a lot of controversy about the bullets and their trajectory not to mention the disappearance of witnesses as well.

I will say this.

Before it's tragic collapse in 1999 which killed 12 students, the Fightin' Texas Aggie Bonfire (which is built before the game with Texas and symbolizes our "burning desire" to beat the hell out of t.u.) had only NOT burned in one year.

1963. After JFK was shot, it was dismantled.

Kitso
KS 361

I heard a presidential historian on NPR this morning talking about JFK.

He pointed out a lot of the stuff that JAM alluded to above.

Seems to me that on the plus side were his stand during the Cuban Missle Crisis, tax cuts, the jump start given to the Space Program (putting an American on the Moon) and some others.

There were a number of his programs that never made it to or through Congress -- some of which were the precursers of some of LBJ's successes.

While Kennedy did inherit the use of "advisors" in Viet Nam from Eisenhower, the historian this morning believed that he would not have gotten into that mess nearly as far as Johnson and Nixon did. No real was to prove that, though.

In terms of the pain medications and womanizing, we didn't hold our presidents up to the scrutiny and the standards that we do today back then. And Kennedy certainly wasn't the first documented case of a presidential extra-marital affair. Those go back to the founding fathers.

It would be hard for most of you on GC to understand how HUGE the fact that Kennedy was Catholic was. People said that if he won, the Pope would be running the country in no time.

Bobby may, in fact, have been the smartest of the three brothers, but he just somehow didn't have the charisma of John. Had JFK not been killed -- and later RFK -- Bobby would probably have been president as well. Ted just seemed to keep shooting himself in the foot.

In the end, the time they called Camelot was good for the country, I think. It started us on a number of roads that we still travel after the doldrums of the two world wars and Korea.

I tend to think of JFK fondly -- and as for where I was when I heard the news? I was in the PA/Radio room of our high school, and threw the switch when the principal made the initial announcement that the president had been shot -- and "aired" the bulletin from the Columbus Public Schools owned radio station when the superintendent announced that his wounds were fatal, and closed the district. On the following anniversary of his death, another guy in the Radio Club and I did a memorial program on the PA system, complete with music and sound effects which had people crying in the hallways during the passing period that followed.

It was a truly amazing time.

Great post DA!

I soooooo agree with your take on Ted as well. He just seems to get in his own way!

JFK had one heck of a speech writer. I think, more than most
leaders, his words inspired a nation. (I know someone said that before.) Bush came close right after the attacks on the WTC, but
considering the state of affairs, they have lost their thunder-IMO.
Hopefully, one day in retrospect, they will ring true.

Not quite. There were four Kennedy brothers. The brother that was the best at just about everything was Joseph Kennedy Jr. He graduated from Harvard and he was the brother Joe Sr had earmarked for the White House.
http://www.jpkf.org/BIOG.HTML

Overrated
 

JFK was a grossly overrated president. Historians were initially enamored with him, but as his record is dispationately examined, his stature has dropped down to that of a mediocre president. What is particularly disturbing about JFK is that he lost the 1960 election. His dad "bought" Illinois and West Virginia for JFK by paying for the electoral fraud that gave Kennedy the victory.

Culturally, he is considered one of the graetest presidents. Why? Because of the way his legacy is portrayed in popular culture by various media outlets. He had a pretty and stylish wife, and a cute family. He also banged Marilyn Monroe from here to high heaven. Unfortunately, having a picture-perfect family and screwing Ms. Monroe does make for the execution of good policy.

Lets look at his record. H e really only did one positive thing for which he deserves credit; the space program. He doesn't really deserve that much credit for handling the Cuban Missile because evidence suggests that Nixon would have handled it in a similar fashion. What makes JFK's handling so much more dramatic is that JFK surrounded himself with people that made the crisis more likely, and the eventual conflict resolution less likely than what Nixon would have done.

Take a look at what JFK did on the Civil Rights front; just about nothing.

Other foreign policy; Bay of Pigs, Vietnam.

The fascination with JFK is, for all practical purposes, a creation of Hollywood and has little to do with his actual, and mediocre legacy.

On a side note, I'm ashamed that his son was a Phi Psi. JFK Jr.'s arrogance as a pilot was a contributing factor to the homocide of his wife and sister-in-law.

The one encouraging thing about his legacy, and about living in an open society, is that with enough time, history usually gets it right. Truman was considered a mediocre president for some time after his presidency. Mark my words, of the 5 post WWII 20th century Democratic presidents, Truman will go down as, by far, the best. LBJ, like Nixon (a Republican) will remain an enigma as both an astonishly effective president, and a man who committed enourmous damage to his nation. Carter was flat out pathetic as a president, although a terrific human being. Clinton's legacy is dropping faster than an anchor thrown off a ship. JFK is finally, and correctly, being seen a s largely ineffectual; great for Hollywood, but not so hot for America.

Let's not forget his mafia ties either.

-Rudey

Mafia ties? That I admire!;)

I have read about JFK's extensive drug use. I believe the article I read detailed use of pain killers and cocaine. The article also discussed his love of woman and his regular hiring of prostitutes.
The article was in the June 03 issue of Playboy (of course a trusted news source!)

-wendi

I think it's darn near impossible to separate JFK & RFK's policies without thinking of their assassinations. As a JFK assassination buff, it's known that the big reason he was even in Texas was to try to smooth over the bitterness between Gov. Connally & Sen. Yarborough - he was looking towards the 1964 election, and he stood to lose Texas with such a divided party.

That aside, I met several of the Kennedys while I was still in politics. Let's just say that I'm not impressed - at all.

Sorry Max,

I was talking about the three who actually served in the Senate and that we are most aware of. Since Joe, Jr. died in military service, he was never really a factor in these discussions. At least that's my take on it. Some might disagree.

In other news...

I think that saying the JFK was "grossly overrated" is grossly overstated.

It's always difficult to compare styles and accomplishments in a totally different time, using totally new criteria. It's kind of like saying that a 1963 Chevy is mediocre campared to a 2003 (or even a 1957 which was one of the neatest cars ever built) It's apples and oranges.

As for the media, Kennedy is often said to have been a master of using it. Not really so, in my professional opinion -- however Nixon and his people were terrible at it, and Kennedy shown by comparison.

In terms of Mafia ties, I don't know that they have ever been proven. There were rumors, though, obviously.

I'm not sure it's fair to compare a president who served less than one full term on his legislative agenda or his record in foreign affairs. And the fact that Nixon would have handled the missle crisis the same way doesn't make JFK's handling of it any less effective.

Vis a vis Vietnam, President Eisenhower was the first president to send advisors there, against the advice of many in the military, and the real buildup didn't come until the Johnson presidency. Hanging much of the "blame" on Kennedy doesn't make any sense to me. From a military standpoint, though, JFK is generally credited with beginning the special operations units we're so entranced with today -- the "Green Berets" (who seldom call themselves that, but rather Special Forces.

In terms of "buying" elections -- that pretty much happens every four years -- and there are a lot of people who would argue that the current president didn't win the last election.

Bottom line for me is that it is difficult to quantify how good or bad a president it -- but all of the presidential historians I've seen and heard over the past couple of weeks have given him pretty high marks, considering the fact that it's difficult to compare his efforts with full and particularly two term presidents.

I lived through the Kennedy presidency (I was in high school at the time), and while he may not have been our best, he was a long way from our worst. If, for no other reason, he helped give a country in the doldrums a kick start.

Joe Kennedy, Sr. paid for electoral fraud, and that does not happen every four years. In fact, it has never happened before, or since.