cutting rules
 

i was just reading a post about someone who got cut from a house she liked and it got me thinking; we have this rule that we won't invite a pnm back to a later party or to a later semester's recruitment if we've cut her; do any other houses do this or is it just us? and what do you think of this policy?

That has me wondering. Aren't some of the girls cut because a certain number has to be cut?

Or are they all "I did NOT like her"

If she was cut because of numbers then I would have no problem inviting her back...the worst that can happen is for her to tell ya where to go!

(Just wondering because I am kinda new at this)

Would love to hear replies...

It depends a lot on the campus. Some have very strict rules about releasing a certain number of women per recruitment event, others don't. There are a lot of factors that go into membership selection other than just whether the women liked a PNM. Grades, class in school, recs, previous leadership activities, legacies going through, to name a few. It is impossible for any of us to know why a chapter cuts a particular woman. Sometimes they get PNMs confused with each other (imagine trying to get to know 500 new women or more!). Sometimes there are nasty rumors that a particular PNM is definitely going with XYZ so they don't want to "waste" a spot on their invite list for her. We really have no way of knowing with each individual case.

Dee

I think every chapter does COB differently. Your chapter's way is certainly fine, but I would have no problem with COBbing a woman who was cut due to release figures. In fact, I would rather have someone who had to be released than someone who didn't have the grades or whatever!

Re: cutting rules
 

We had a couple threads about the "cut once, cut again" policy. AFAIK it is not a national policy, and while it is a tradition at some chapters and schools it is not always an actual written rule.

oh, and I don't like it. :) it can screw up some really good possibilities.

i was wondering...if a girl goes through recruitment again, how does the chapter know they've cut her in the past??? how long do they keep these records? and also, in these records, do they specify *why* she was cut? and now that i'm thinking about records and such, do chapters keep recommendation letters and such for a girl if she went through recruitment and didn't pledge, in case she goes through again?

it just seems to me that if a girl went through recruitment for a second time, perhaps a year after she went the first time, the chapter would have forgotten and she would be judged on a new slate!

We DEFINITELY didn't have a "once cut" rule. But we did have a rule that at least 3 sisters had to have met a PNM in order for a vote to be taken on her after a party. Needless to say, a lot of great girls slipped away because of it, but on the other hand, you didn't end up with someone who sort of "flew in under the radar" ending up at a preference party. It's one of the few downsides to a Panhel that encourages us to rush using no resumes, pictures or reccommendations.

I got a great girl cut this way because I hogged all her time at one of the initial parties (we knew all of the same people and were chattering together through the whole party).

Sometimes girls we lost that way came back through informal rush if we were lucky.

My chapter didn't do the "cut once, cut always" thing, and I'm glad. As others have said, sometimes you have to cut great women because of grades or release figures, and why shouldn't these women get another shot?

As for how far back a chapter's "memory" goes as to why a particular woman was cut, it seems to me that it should be irrelevant, because there's a different group of sisters voting when she rushes later on. Although, I think a difficult or painful decision would be remembered ("Oh, I remember Susie PNM! We had to cut her for grades last year. Sally Sister left crying because Susie was her rush crush. But Susie's really brought her grades up this year.")

Young women change so much freshman year! Isn't it possible that the sisters who saw her last time misjudged her? Or that she has greatly matured since the last time around? I honestly don't see why a chapter would shoot itself in the foot by forcing itself to cut anyone. It's not like inviting her to a party means you have to give her a bid.

I mean, rush, formal rush in particular, is imperfect. You get a brief glance at a nervous and exhausted 17-year-old who's one of hundreds and hundreds coming through...how sure can you be that you didn't overlook a great girl?

Ivy

I think in both formal and informal rush it depends on why the girl was cut. I remember situations after formal rush where I would see girls that I LOVED during rush on campus and ask what house they went to and they would say they got dropped from rush-including getting cut from my chapter. It always baffled me! Then during informal my senior year we had graduated a few girls mid year and had a limited number of bids to give-only 5!. Unfortunately there were 7 girls who were really really great at our parties. We encouraged the girls to come through fall rush and I know at least one of them is in my chapter now!

My chapter doesnt have the once cut, always cut policy either. Iv'e seen girls coem through both formal fall rush, and informal spring rush(that all chapters do on my campus) that have been cut for various reasons. Usually if it is for grades, they come through again and if their GPA is at or above our required GPA they usually get in, provided that was the only reason they were cut, or cut because of numbers, we'll COB them.

However, girls we cut before preference night, during formal fall and in the spring(our preference night in the spring is now invitational, where it hasnt always been in the past), then they are not eligible to receive a bid atleast for the rest of that particular semester. That's just how my chapter does it. I dont know about other chapters in my sorority though.

Not to be rude, but aren't membership selection procedures intended to be private?? I wouldn't want to know whether I was cut for having the "wrong" hair, being a bore, being too old, because the house simply has many more girls interested in it than it could possibly take in 1 recruitment period, or any other reason that is just as subjective as my opinions of the chapters. All I would need to know is that it simply wasn't meant to be, whether I wanted it more than anything or not.

Quota is designed for good reasons - to avoid huuuuuuuge pledge classes, help equalize membership in chapters across campus, & ensure that enough spots are open for the number of girls going through recruitment (though spots might not be left at a more popular house, but rather at a "less desirable" house). I'm sure many of us can think of a few chapters who could very easily take 100+ girls each year. Whether a massive new member class is desirable is another matter, & somewhere along the line, cuts have to be made. It could be painful for both the members and the potential members, but frankly, there are reasons 1 girl is cut & another is not, just like there are reasons a girl chooses to return to 1 house but not another. The chapter's basis for decisions, however, is not intended to be known. [I apologize if there are national organizations who have an open Membership Selection procedure, but I don't know of any].

I'll admit it...I may be a little biased. My chapter is one of the smaller houses on campus, since it was recolonized a few years ago. In my opinion, the size turns away some of the girls, which doesn't help the chapter grow (ah, a vicious cycle). If chapter XYZ was able to take 100 new members, rather then the cap of 41, our own new member class could be affected. I'd love to say each & every one of a chapter's new members is at the house, because she ranked it 1st, but that may not be the case.

In an ideal world, every girl would get her first choice. However, as with every other part of life, there are rules that need to be followed in order to prevent chaos and to be fair to as many people as possible.

I am not against mandated early cuts. I see the purposes of it, and I don't think they are malicious. I think I'd rather find out early on that I was cut, rather than having my heart set on a house, going to pick up a bid, and being heartbroken.

As far as invitations after cuts, I'm not sure what I think of that. I guess if I was a potential new member, I wouldn't count on going back. I'd have to see what I felt about it if I was invited back & go from there. It would seem, however, that if an invitation was extended, it would seem to be an administrative cut rather than something else.

Membership Selection is a private matter in my chapter and in AOII, as I would assume it is for all organizations. Far be it for me to point out the obvious, but is it really anyone's business (besides the chapter) who a chapter cuts and for what reasons?

What it comes down to anyhow is that people don't take rejection well at all, it's not a good idea to publicize that my chapter didn't take Susie Q Rushee because her grades sucked or whatever.

I don't think we are talking about the "why" in this thread so much as the "how." If a lot of women hear at their school that "cut once cut again" is a panhellenic policy, WHICH IT'S NOT, that might discourage them from rushing again. I don't care if XYZ cut someone because she has 3 heads, or is a heroin addict, or she wore ugly shoes. What I do care about is if a rushee thinks that because XYZ cut her, she isn't eligible to get a bid there again ever...which might be a complete fallacy.

One of the Fabulous new members of my sorority told me her story. Her older sisters are alums of sororities ABC and XYZ. She didn't claim legacy on her registration form because she wanted to know where she would truly belong. She got cut from both of those chapters after 2nd sets. Her sisters found out she didn't claim legacy & called the respective chapters here at UM. She didn't go back to those chapters for 3rds (coz she was cut), but those chapters called her back for pref parties. Needless to say, she didn't rank them first. She chose us coz she knew we wanted her rather than joining the 'popular' houses. She said "I would never have joined those houses because they cut me before and I knew they didn't want me as much as they did others."


I don't agree with the rule that alot of fraternities and sorority chapters have that they CANNOT cut a legacy for any reason. If that PNM isn't going to fit in, or if they are going to bring the morale of the house down, they should be cut. One of my good friends in another chapter just told me that all the members of her chapter hated this PNM but they HAD to keep inviting her back because of the policy. That girl would have taken up a spot in the pledge class and she would have been the unwanted pledge. That chapter was extremely relieved when the girl decided to drop rush and they got quota plus of a pledge class of girls who they wanted. The exact same thing happened to a friend of one of my housemates. But this girl ended up joining that chapter she was a legacy to and she found out pretty quickly she wasn't wanted but for some god knows why reason she's stuck around....