anti-expansion, cont'd
 

excellent analysis, Firehouse. Could not seem to continue thread, so started ' new' one.
Question, tho...wonder if the risk management costs at Ole Miss
are comparable to Penn State, and if so, the Ole Miss chapters with over a hundred are far better off than Penn State's fifty. TKE
has had long-standing top chapter at Penn State but zero at Ole
Miss.
You guys have some very sensible replies. I salute you. But I
wish we could improve our image and perhaps the insurance
rates would go down. You MUST have an active board and an active chapter adviser....that is the first step.
And...drinking scholars. Cheers! Uncle Erik from CO

Kudos to You
 

You're absolutely right about the importance of alumni support. I don't know what the insurance matrix is - whether it's a flat rate or based on a per-man charge. I will tell you that my experience was in a chapter that was routinely 175 men. It was fantastic. It ran on momentum and morale. Winning together is the oil that keeps the engines running.
I do believe that size is relevant. A 100-man chapter at Penn State could theoretically be maintained, but you'd have to have someone there to hold their hand. The social pressure from the rest of the system would be too great.
At Penn State, most of the members live in the houses. That's an advantage the large chapters miss.
At Ole Miss I don't think the houses hold more than about twenty guys. But, they've got probably the most spectacular Phi Delt and Sigma Nu chapters in the country. Don't know how my Pikes are there. Don't think anybody's bad.

FireHouse, Now that we have gotten above the pissing contests!:cool:

Well to my knowledge, there is No Matrix on Insurance! Once the Premium is set, it is set for all Chapters!

Okay, then the problem is, how do the smaller Chapters ( Mine) pay the high premium?! It does depend also on the area of teh Country! Trust me!!! Int. Hdq. Ins. had us in Penn! Hell We are in KS! Da lower rates.

But, I think what Erik and I were discussinging on earlier thread was about problems of expansion and why!

I was told we were in a pissing contest! Not! EC was becoming a Earp Speak typo person! I hold that as A Complement!

He is a few years an Older Fart Than Me!:cool:

I am Proud to Know HIM! He can be a cumberbunmudgin than me! Not by Much!:D

FH dazzel them with BS!:cool: WORKS FOR ME!:D

Now, Alum is another Thread! Sh-t, dont get me started on that!


YES, ALUM are needed!

Damn, most dont know!:( Yes I profess a Life Commitment! Yes there is a PKE Chapter at My Alum School, and they went through some tuff times like we all do! But Doing good now!:)

Thanks
 

Glad to hear my boys are doing OK.

houses/capacity/insurance
 

Let me throw this out...in my home state we had houses to take
care of almost all...TKE at Emporia, 60 in house; TKE at KU, 88;
SAE, K-State, 80, SAE at KU, 90, TKE at Iowa State, 112; Beta at MU, over a hundred; many of the "old Big 8" schools had houses
well in excess of 60 capacity....these figures are quite old, from
my memory and the 50s. A pledge class of 40 was not uncommon. On large campi, transfer members were often ignored, and often didn't affiliate. TKE had over 40 at KU in '57
And these figures pale when we think of the behemoths in FL
and some southern schools. The weenie size chapters now in
New England plus the miserable extension schools where there is no house or only a dozen live in....they do indeed drain the others, and I know I am manking some of you angry.
While I am at it, if you cannot support or will not rush, get out!
And the crappy little outfits with no house, under fifteen men, how can you call yourself a fraternity? Get real.
Now, Tom, how's that for codger-isms? LOL

I just wanted to note that our Epsilon chapter at Penn State decided to drop their national affiliation specifically due to the dry house policy. They are now Delta Sigma. It's sad, they were one of our best chapters at the time.

sorry, Stan
 

sorry, Stan, and I know it hurts to lose a good chapter.
Something the kids of today do not seem to grasp. In the movie
"Animal House" one might note booze in the house, the Delta one unkempt, general disarray.
As a product of the 50s, I can state, visiting over a hundred TKE
chapters, starting 17, we had only two chapters who were allowed to have booze at ANY function, in or out of house.. These places were okayed by college administrations to have the keggers. The snooty supper clubs at Princeton even had tabs and monthly liquor bills. Imagine today trying to collect on those! These two were Cal-Berkeley and Cornell. This is not to say we did have booze....and bear in mind, some states had 18
as legal drinking. But we did use discretion; we had guards who "watched" when we were out in the boonies. And we NEVER, ever, permitted booze in the house. A huge fine if we were caught (I was never caught).
HOWEVER, we have brought all this crap, this insurance, etc. upon ourselves. We thought it was cute to piss on the SAE lion
or to throw up on the Beta porch...cute. Our grades fell far below
the all-men's average. We expelled the housemothers. We, let
us face it, shit in our own mess kit.
Let get cleaned up..it is not a bad idea to be gentlemen again.

Re: houses/capacity/insurance
 

Now, this is becoming less and less of the case. In my time at school (at a large, New England, anti-Greek school), more and more chapters have increased their numbers (for better or for worse). My Kappa Sigma chapter has been over 70 men since I was initiated, and 4 out of the 6 fraternities on campus have over 30 men; not a huge amount, but a good enough amount. I know that at UConn there are some big chapters, and that other schools in New England have been doing very well with Greek size.

While your statement may have been true a few years ago, things around this area are changing. No, there aren't 200 man chapters like in other parts of the country. However, Greek life is slowly but steadily growing, despite some horrific Greek related incidents (a couple of deaths at MIT for example) that have threatened things around here.

I don't take offense to your statement - just wanted to make a couple of points.

Collin

Changes Happening
 

Erik, my good friend, there are shifts in the landscape that may not be as visible to you now that you don't have the opportunity to travel as much. Greeks are making a comeback across the country. It seems to be cyclical; we're up for awhile, down for awhile.
I too have winced when I see that we have expanded to a college that I consider a 'lesser light'. However - this is important - many of those schools embrace greeks as a way of building long term alumni loyalty to the institution. Communter schools in large cities (USF in Tampa for instance) start football programs and build fraternity rows for that purpose. One very direct illustration of the attitude (don't laugh, but this is a good measure) is the ease or difficulty with which you can access Greek Life information on the University's website.
There aren't many 15-man chapters anymore, and no IFC national tolerates them. They're unstable at that size within a system of larger chapters.
As far as the northeast, I'm ver pleased to see that in the alst ten years we have established chapters at Columbia, Princeton and now Harvard.
Yes, we are hated by some faculty and some administratoes, but it was also so. In the 19th century, we were hated by radical religious right-wing faculty & administrators. Today, we are hated by radical left wing faculty and administrators.
And as far as behavior, I think the boys today are much better behaved then we were (of course, Florida is a wild state). Any incident of any kind involving fraternity guys is going to get national headlines because of the political inclination of the media.

delighted, Collin & Firehouse
 

thank you, good guys, for the welcome news and update as regards the greek comebacks. I feel you are both in a better position to know what is up-to-date than I am. And I would give anything to be back in the house seeing the resuscitations....
While you send encouraging news, it is still a fact that there are
lots of 15 man chapters...everywhere.
However, let us look on the positive side and hope that this comeback will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I salute both of you for your caring, your information, and I hope
your chapters all thrive....again, thanks from an old Teke

If you want Greek life to build on very anti-greek campuses you have to start with small chapters and let it blossom from there. You can't have an 80-man chapter on a campus that's 1% greek, be realistic.

I go to school in Massachusetts with a population of 8000 students. The male female ratio is 50/50. We have 4 fraternities and all of them are under 30. I will have to agree with Collin that Greek life is expanding in the Northeast. My freshmen year there was only one fraternity and now as I go into my junior year there are 4. The only problem is getting the numbers up.

--more good news!
 

Matt, Collin, Firehouse...you have made my day!
Thanks for bringing us some positive news and I
am thrilled with the turnaround. May it continue. And,
those of you who will not rush...how dare you deny a good
person a chance to be a greek!
Perhaps the left, the administrators,and the green-teethed,
knuckle dragging, bottom feeding, angry reporters will see
that the greeks can enhance college life, not destroy it.
Forsooth....let's stay on a roll!

I think a lot of the insurance things very from group to group. I know that Pi Kappa Phi is with an insurance carrier that a lot of other groups are with. That does not include homeowner's insurance and whatnot if the chapter has a house. That is just for being a member of the fraternity.

I applaud all of you as does E C! He knows Our School very well and yes it isa State U. Not one of the bigger ones. @ 67,000 Students.

While Erik has been around since the Founding of the Greek Orgs. as we know them, I do disagree somewhat even though I consider him a Great Friend! Yes, We do agree on a thousand situations.

Yes, depending upon the size of the school, that reflects the size of the Orgs.

Greeks are looking at many avenues that I do not totally agree with as there are to many Schools out there that need to be recolonized or large enuff that there can be more Orgs on campi!

We as a total Organization of Social Greeks must continue to grow or wither. But, the ground on which we plant our seed it the ground that will let it grow and mulitiply!