Fifteen Nevada students face discipline in drowning
 

God, when are some people gonna learn? :(

First of all, I'm from Nevada, I'm alumnus of Pikes there.

All media related to the incident has been skewed, some flat out lied, some misled by presentation of the facts and their ordering. It's amazing how much they got wrong in the rush to indict the guys and the greek system. In one article it started with a headline of the "Univ. warned fraternity about traditions" Then it opened with a repeat of the headline, then stated, Pike pledge drowns, then had a quote of the Univ.'s Greek Advisor "I warned this fraternity last week." By all appearances, it looks as if the Pike were just warned about misbehaving a week prior to the incident, except that the fraternity warned was ATO. This is just one instance of many media exaggerations.

The D.A. decided that no crime had been committed, that it was just an accident. This in the face of a (relatively) new anti-hazing law in NV. The University is in cover their a$$ mode. It's their pond. Why the Pike's got canned has more to do with the fraternity's relative newness on campus (1988), since we don't have powerful alumni, yet. ATO's had a guy fall from a window drunk and die. Nothing. :confused: Why? They have old Nevada (state and university) alumni, such as former US Senator Richard Bryan among many others who would have lynched the admin, or worse stopped donating. Same thing with SN, who had a pledge go in to a coma from drinking. I'm not advocating that nothing being done in the face of all three incidents be done, but just rather some consistancy in how the rules are applied.

In this case it was a bunch of guys who went swimming, actives and pledges, as a goof, definitely more brotherhood bullsh!t male bonding, than a hazing :rolleyes: incident. Polar bear club style (the water's about 55-60 F). He didn't tell anyone he couldn't swim. Of the 15-18 guys there, 6-7 were registered life guards. Alcohol was determined NOT to be a factor. The first thing everyone did when they got there was decide to jump in, and get right out. But most decided that it wasn't all that cold and there is a fountain about 25 ft offshore, so some swam out there. It was at that point that he got back in the water and tried to swim.

I'm not saying the Pike's at NV are models of perfect behavior, but I had met many of the guys involved in this incident in the weeks prior and was very impressed with them. The chapter was in the running for regional and national awards from the Natl organization. The two guys that will get the most harsh punishment, are two of the best guys I've ever met in my 10 year association with Pikes. The pledge ed, a senior applying to many top rated grad. programs, had just the week before this incident been awarded the Univ. Greek Board's award for scholar of the year.

In this case they handled themselves as best they could in the face of a tragedy, and they are definitely paying for it with their scholastic careers facing serious problems.

However, this will all be hashed out in court, as a state school, Univ. of Nevada has to follow due process, and the chapter and the students will unfortunately have to sue to make sure they get their say, which hasn't been happening thus far.

(FYI, the lake is right on campus by the DC, and a couple of dorms. It's tiny, more a pond than a lake, about 300 ft by 100ft. I've known people to swim it, dive it, hell some of my buddies back in the day jet skied it. The area is not very well lit, it's 4 feet deep 8 ft out and 15 ft deep 2 feet further from shore. Rugby, football, Pi Phis, SAEs, independents, all swim it. If you know how to swim it's nothing. One thing about swimming in general, it's something that most people over-estimate their abililty to do.)

mucci, thank you for this post!

As you say it does get skewed, or screwed up by the press for headlines! But alas, go figure!

I know that All of the Nevada Supreme Court are Greeks, LXA's.

One of my Chapters Brothers is also a District Court Judge, and you are right, a little local clout does help!

Good luck to the Chapter there!!!!

The news coverage was really so bad that skewed actually wasn't a rotten enough word. It was so bad that I don't and won't read a paper, or watch a news program again. The profession of journalism and any claim to ethics or morality by that pack of charlatans is a farce. It was such a cut and dried incident, and the way it was spun by the media was vulgar. If they screw up such a simple story as this, how can they report anything complicated.

The UNLV Rebel Yell (student 'paper') ran an 'op-ed' that basically stated that the Pikes threw him in the lake to kill him. Like some sort of tough love swim lesson. :rolleyes: I'd love to meet that bastard who wrote that, and trust me phenomenal growth aside, Nevada is still a really small state. I'm sure I'll meet that guy somewhere sometime, to his sorrow. :mad: I think the UNR Pikes could probably sue over it, and I am adamantly campaigning for that. But it's up to the alumni who are lawyers since they are the ones doing the work for the chapter for free.

One thing that's bothersome about the punishments being meted out to these guys is that some of them the only thing the school is holding their feet to the fire for is that they went swimming in the lake, which is against the rules. However if you get caught swimming there, and no one happened to die, then it's not even a big deal. I think maybe you get a ticket for trespass from UNPD. And hazing, forget about it, some of the pledges were wearing speedos as a goof, they had no problem with it, and actives did it too. And of course the best guys, the ones in executive positions are seniors and facing the most serious consequences, expulsion or suspension.

One thing that all the other houses on campus did well, was rally around the Pikes, who forgotten in the whole tragedy overshadowed by NEWS AT ELEVEN! and the investigation, were grieving for this kid, their friend and brother. He was a real solid guy, he'd bring the house gpa up all by himself. An immigrant from the Phillipenes, quiet, studious, athletic. But you could see just one of those guys who's real low key, then bam they get done pledging, initiate in the spring, and by the fall of their sophomore year are like freaking rock stars. But the other houses all had this feeling of "there but for the grace of God go I" as this literally could have happened to any one, since most had done this before.

1. According the the autopsy report Santos had a blood achohol of .062

2. He did tell people that he could not swim but he was told that the pond was probably only about 3 or 4 ft deep.

3. According the statements that your fraternity brothers made to the police, this was a pledging ritual/a tradition.

1)Yeah and at 0.062 , he could still legally drive in Nevada. His last drink was around 9. He drowned around 2 am. Absolutely he did not have a drink from the time he showed up around 10, until he died. The coroner's report is the one that said it didn't appear that alcohol was a significant factor in his death. He didn't fail to swim because he was too drunk, but rather because he didn't know how.

2)He only told his pledge brothers. Had he told an active they would have watched him like a hawk. Like I said there were about 6 guys, pledges and actives, who just happened to also be certified life guards.

3)I know it's not ritual nor was it any kind of initiation, I've never swam in that pond. I don't think it was even a tradition, and if it was it's in the sense that students swim in that lake. Greek, Independent, and Athletes. It's a lark.

I hate this country's victimization mania. AJ died because he made a decision to try to swim and failed to recognize his limitations. He made a mistake, he paid for it with his life.

No Pike ever made him get in, they didn't push him or throw him, they didn't threaten him, nor intimidate him. He wasn't a victim of peer pressure or hazing. The only thing he was a victim of was thinking he could swim.

What ever happened to personal responsibility? What ever happened to accidents? If something happens it's automatically someone else's fault.

Mucci,

I agree with you on almost every point. Also, my thoughts and prayers go out to you and all brothers of Iota Eta. I couldn't imagine having to deal with a situation like this.

However, if AJ did tell his pledge brothers that he wasn't a strong swimmer, and in fact some of them were lifeguards, then the accountability factor comes into play. The problem wasn't that alcohol was determined to be a factor in his death, it was that it was present (both in AJ and most likely in the others involved) and that alcohol impares judgment. My guess, and please let us know if I am wrong, is that all the guys had been drinking and decided to go for a swim. They found out that AJ wasn't the best swimmer, but let him go in anyways. I realize that it would be pretty uncool to keep him from swimming, but the alternative is not, by any means, comparable.

It is horrible that the media has misconstrued this tragedy. But even more disheartening is the fact that this chapter was an exemplary chapter of Pi Kappa Alpha. It just goes to show you that even in great chapters, no one is immune from tragedy.

Thanks KEPike. Hit www.iotaeta.com and send them an email if you want.


http://www.unr.edu/tour/resources/manzlake.jpg
{Here's a pic, looking at the lake from it's NE corner. They were down in the SE corner, there are two fountains, there is another one near where they were swimming. Closer to the near shore than this one in pic is.}

The idea was originally jump in get wet, get out. Which everyone thinks is going to really suck. But the water, while not warm was not that cold. It was at that point someone decided to swim to this aeration fountain in the middle, 30 ft away. At that point AJ got back in the water. He didn't make a sound that any one heard, but with 15-20 guys goofing around I'm not suprised. Do I think alcohol impaired the judgement of those around AJ, probably. From what everyone said about AJ, was he fine literally his last drink was at 9-10pm. They went in the water around 2am. My guess was that after walking in, and then getting out, he assumed it was shallow the whole way. The fountain looks very close and is, if you can swim. Once he hit the point where it got deep he was done. It being dark and everyone being noisy no one noticed. Once he didn't turn up, most people assumed he walked off to take a crap or something, got bored and left. Only one guy thought he was in the water. So most went diving (way to murky to find him), one guy called the police. Some went searching the area on foot. And a couple went to his house thinking he left and went home. (An interesting aside: When the police showed up the cop said two things at first, one what fraternity are you guys, and b. if this is a prank you have to pay for all the manhours wasted.)

On alcohol and accountability. If you were driving and got in wreck while drunk, who's fault is it? In Nevada with the amount of alcohol in AJ's bloodstream he would be charged not with felony DUI but a misdeamnor (sp?) form. Another example, now if I'm driving down the road, and someone's riding with me, but doesn't buckle his seat belt and we get in a wreck where everyone lives that's buckled up, but the guy who isn't died, is it my fault he died? Do you think I'd get charged with a crime? Even if I was speeding, not a 100mph speeding, but say 10 over the speedlimit?

I am very glad to hear that they did not just walk off without searching for him. But more importantly, I am very glad that they called the police promptly thereafter. This definitely changes my view on the accountability issue.

As far as the driving questions go, it's a little hard to compare the two with the situation at hand. Driving drunk is a crime regardless, and I think that there are laws stating that you can be held responsible for the passengers in your car that do not wear their seat belts. Involuntary manslaughter? I'm not a lawyer so I don't know. But I understand what you are saying.

What has been the final decision of the school? Have they revoked recognition of Iota Eta? And if so, for how long? It doesn't look like MHQ has suspended the charter or done anything. Is this true?

No, MHQ sent a lawyer out to talk to the chapter, and look over the situation. His opinion, and he was quite frank, and with the caveat that the actives told the truth,(and by most accounts it seems they did) was that this was definitely not a hazing event.

MHQ has not suspended the chapter. After we fight it out the university over the due process issues that were frankly ignored by the university (something the MHQ lawyer assured us would happen). And we have no idea how far we can afford to fight, since we are a relatively young chapter. The majority of our alumni are in their early 30s to mid 20s, starting careers, marriages and families. My guess is that without outside financial/lawyer help, the chapter will wind up booted from the University and at that point surrender the charter back to MHQ.

Who knows, of our couple hundred, only a handful are lawyers at this time, and even fewer of them are still local to the area.