Hazing?
 

I just have two questions:

1. Why is walking on line considered hazing?

2. Why is having a "long" pledge process considered hazing?

In my opinion, walking on line is one of the easiest parts of pledging, once you get the hang of it. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif It also promotes unity. You cannot walk as a line if you do not work together. When I was in school, NPC sororities had their pledgee's walk in a line, they just didn't lock up. There were no outcries of hazing from anyone. And, their lines were 20-50 girls long, easily. Why the double standard?

As for the "long" pledge processes: (Speaking only for my organization) We do not purposely keep the ladies on line for "long" periods of time. Most of us are well aware of the fact that, in essence, the line determines when they will be initiated.

When the line has successfully completed all the required goals of the pledge process, then they are initiated. Some lines are on point, others are not...period. Sometimes other issues within the line come into play that may prolong the process. However, even taking all of this into consideration, who is to say what constitutes "long"? What is a "long" pledge process? A week? Two weeks? Four? Six? Ten?

Point blank, pledging is time consuming. If you don't have the time, don't pledge.

------------------
Sincerity, Loyalty, Unity
Sigma Lambda Upsilon: Hasta La Muerte!

[This message has been edited by Serenity (edited June 25, 2000).]

Yes, I am also wondering what is considered a long pledging process.

I have read posts that have said in many ways that the NPC does not condone a long pledging process that occurs in LGLOs and BGLOs.

As a member of a LGLO, I do not consider our sorority's pledge process to be unnecessarily long.

What is considered long by the NPC standards?
What is the reasoning behind this?

I am just trying to understand.


Suavacita
Gamma Alpha Omega
Honesty, Integrity, Leadership, Scholarship, Unity

I know I'm way behind here, but what does walking on line entail?

Hazing is something that has no clear-cut definition. If your state has a law about it that would be a good definition to follow. Otherwise you'll want to find out what your HQ says about it.

Many NIC and NPC groups have extremely conservative views as to what hazing entails. Some go so far as to say asking a new member to do anything they would not normally do is "hazing".

Sometimes it can be a positive thing to ask someone to operate outside of their normal comfort zone but it tends to get taken to extremes.

Is walking on line when the class has to work together to earn their intiation? And, if so, how long does it TYPICALLY take? (I understand, as you say, that some lines take longer than others)

As for NPC, I don't know of a certain length that NPC thinks the new member period should be. However, it seems to me that most NPC groups have shortened their new member periods to six or eight weeks.

Please use the GC search engine. You are bound to find your answer with that tool.
:)

Is making a New Associate Class work together, Study, Have meetings Learn about your history hazing? In some circles YES! It is BS! If they do not want to join and have to learn to study and make gardes to graduate, or learn the History of your Org. and Local then be gone damn spot!

If I walked into the House and a New Associate did not stand and introduce himself or know who I was, I would feel like I was not a member of that Fraternity!

If a Lady walks in and they did not stand up I would be pissed, not because it was hazing, but common courtesy!

We have become so politically Correct, we lose sight of the courtesy that should be shown to elders and women!

What a DAMN SHAME!:(

I was taught by my Mother, stand and introduce yourself!

If my Mother was wrong then the P C asswholes can kiss my ----!:mad:

Walking "on line"
 

I used to advise the greeks at a small religious university. Walking on line (or like ducks, or backwards, etc.) is considered hazing because 1) it is something that students are not normally required to do; 2) it is something that the actives won't do themselves with the pledges; 3) it can be considered a "spectacle" on campus, therefore creating embarrassment for some; and 4) most administrators and faculty see it as disruptive.

Now, of course, while walking on line may be embarrasing to one student, it may evoke a sense of pride in another student. It's this discrepency that creates the issue, and consequently, some organizations and universities feel it's necessary to just avoid the whole thing and prohibit it (among many other things).

As for the length of an education period being "too long," I guess it depends on what your governing body and/or university say. Where I used to work, there was a sorority that had ladies pledge for 15 weeks, but that was considered okay.

On another note...Serenity, I've been meaning to send some LGLO love to you and your hermanas! Hope all is well in your casa!

our process is generally longer than most NPCs on campus. We go about 10.5 weeks. We DID cut it down to 8 weeks to see if things would work better, but they didn't. The girls felt rushed having a test every single week (we don't do one big test, just a lot of lil ones instead), having to complete our Opal Interviews, or getting to know each individual sister and vice versa, and having to balance school work, jobs, boyfriends, families, etc... 8 weeks was just too short to really get to know all of the girls and for them to get to know and feel comfortable around us... and there were only 6 of them. Now we have 29 newbies... i think 10 weeks gives time to enjoy your new member semester, bond with the rest of your class, and just be... well... the newbies. i don't know how others can initiate after 4 weeks... nor do i understand the process of holding nms over til the next semester. guess it just depends on the sorority... or fraternity.

Don't take my word on this, but I think that an extra-long new member period can be looked upon as "hazing" because grades tend to fall during the new member period (which is only natural, considering how much busier you'll be than you have been before) and both schools and the NPC sororities would like to minimize that, and have more of a focus on grades.

Personally I don't think that a long new member period is hazing, per se, but it can produce a detrimental side effect (falling grades) that most GLOs don't want associated with their organization. And I think it's a lot easier for NPHC sororities and fraternities to get away with a longer pledge period because their new members tend to be older -- NPC sorority pledges are generally freshman or sophomores who haven't learned how to balance school with other commitments yet.

And the extra-extra-long new member periods (where they wait until a new semester has started to initiate) were originally so that the actives could see the new members' first semester grades and make sure they were up to par before initiation, I believe.

I agree with this 100%. I don't understand some of the things that are considered hazing. What is the point of pledging if you dont want to learn info and history?! Obviously it's going to be time consuming.

I have to say although my organization does a lot of what was mentioned above, we do go to the extreme with a few things. Our new members have to meet everyday for meetings and to learn new information. Yes it's a pain in the ass, but as I look back on it it's very well worth it. I know where all my sisters are from, and I feel proud to say that outloud. But in aspect, why is that considered hazing? Our national organization's pledge process is 6-8 weeks, however, I pledged for 11 weeks. We had more grils than normal, and the sisters wanted to make sure we knew our information for the test. That too, would be considered hazing.

I just don't understand why a lot of simple things are considered hazing, when at the sme time hardcore paddling and throwing up from too much beer can be in the same category.

walking, working together to get to XYZland.

I know fraternities that wait two quarters (that's 20 weeks of school and the summer) before they initiate their pledges. That seems excessive to me! But they like it. You know, I don't think it's the length so much as what you do during it. If the members are made to think they may not get initiated if they don't do one thihng or another I would consider that undue stress and hazing.
But, that's just me.

-M

I think it's a shame that new member programs are so short. I'm glad that I had to wait until the following semester to initiate. We had to make our grades first---emphasizing why we were in college in the first place. It also gave us time to get to know everyone, new members and old. Time to learn about our organization and take pride in it. Also my chapter did COB so it allowed the entire group of new members to be initiated at the same time----none of this 2-3 initiations a semester. What I see now is less time to bond and care about everything because everyone is stressed out trying to get it done in a short time. I have never understood why the time was shorteed so drastically....now there are many more dropping out than back then.

Often times, you can learn in 6 weeks what you can in 10. At least for most NPC sororities. With D Phi E, the program is set up so that you can complete it in 6 weeks, and it works VERY well. On top of burdening new members with hideously long NM periods, think of the events that are added onto the schedule of all of the active sisters with NM events. Yes, they're fun, but it can be a bit excessive at times.