Politics: Islam and Terrorism...are the two connected???
 

I just want to know what you all think about this. I'm sure there are some Muslims on GC, so feel free to join the discussion.

Does anyone think that Islam itself promotes terrorism OR is it just radical Muslims that have taken the Quran out of context? Many times leaders in Islam say that this religion as a religon of peace....but I don't think folx are buying it anymore.

Look at the situation in Moscow right now....The conflict between the Palestinians and Israelis.... The 1993 World Trade Center Bombing......The USS Cole......9-11-01......Louis Farrakhan's teachings.....and now the Sniper who converted to Islam AFTER
9-11-01 because of his sympathy for the hijackers ...:rolleyes: :eek:need I go on? Is there not a commonality of HATE for the United States and the way we live our lives????? Or do they all just happen to be followers of Islam. Now I know many times people say that their religous preference doesn't matter because other murderers are Christians..etc.. However, these people are killing in the name of their God!

What do you all think?

AND PLEASE REMEMBER, THIS IS MEANT TO BE A DISCUSSION, NOT TO DISRESPECT ANYONE'S RELIGION!!!!:cool: :D ;)

To answer your question NO ...absoluetly not...that's like saying black culture promotes..welfare...violence...theft...etc. Islam is a religion that promotes PEACE. Unfortunately there are some radical/violent muslims, just as there are some radical/violent christians, jews, hindus, blacks, whites...etc. It's a shame that these people give the religion such a bad name...but PLEASE let's not forgot that this is nothing more than a STEREOTYPE...And we were and still are the targets of STEREOTYPES...it's just that since these attacks that magnifying glass has been lifted off of us and placed on another culture...BUT TRUST it will not take long for it to be put right back on us...ESPECIALLY with the sniper arrests!

I don't really think your analogy fits here...but anyway....
Just curious...have you read the Quran? Are you saying that promoting Jihad is not itself hate??

Thanx for responding....:cool:

In terms of my analogy I'm relating black people to Muslims, in terms of them both being under attack in this society. Muslims as well as black people are frequently the target of stereotypes thus the relationship between the two. To identify an entire RACE or RELIGION based on the performance of a few of their members is not right. I do understand where you're coming from...because the terrorists of 9-11-01...did proclaim their actions as being in the name of Allah...however...on the flip side members of the KKK have been murdering blacks in the name of white power...radical black organizations killing whites in the name of black power...Germans killing Jews in the name of Germany...and the list goes on and on...all I'm saying is we shouldn't hold a religion or race under fire because a few crazy people go on a killing spree in its name. I hope I've made my point a little more clear. Also, yes I have read the Quran, I'm a muslim. And Jihad does not mean Holy War...the literal meaning of Jihad is "to strive". Holy War is the media's interpretation :rolleyes: of Jihad. By the way I'm glad you posted this thread and I hope we keep up the dialogue.

From talking to some of my Muslim friends, the meaning of Jihad has been misunderstood. They said that Jihad literally means "to struggle in the name of God" not "holy war" as has been said many times on television and radio. Jihad does not have to be a physical struggle with another person. It may be a personal struggle to overcome something in your life, just like many Christians have to struggle to overcome sins like gambling, cursing, or drinking. Any Muslims reading this, please correct me if I am wrong but this is the meaning of jihad that I have learned.

To respond to the thread, no, I don't believe that Islam promotes violence or terrorism. Some people just decide to take out their problems on other people in the name of God. Christians have done the same thing. Remember the Holy Crusades were fought in the name of Jesus Christ.

LoveSpell, I'm glad someone started a topic on this because I was thinking about this the other day. I am ashamed to say, but I think I am starting to become prejudiced against Muslims because of the terrorist activites of the last few years. (And this is especially crazy since my last boyfriend came from a Muslim family!) It hasn't helped either that my hometown has been terrorized by a sniper claiming to be from the Nation of Islam. Lately, I've begun to look at people from these backgrounds and think to myself "how could you come from a culture that could promote such violence?" I know this is extremely racist/prejudiced/even ignorant of me--the word Islam itself even means Peace. I know there have been crazies in the past that have used Christianity to fuel their violence (look at the KKK, Hitler...) I have always kept these thoughts to myself because deep down I know that Islamic terrorists are just a few bad apples in the bunch that are making an entire religion look bad, but fear does promote hate which promotes violence.

The problem isn't Islam, but political oppression
 

I too think that this is a good topic. After talking with Muslim friends as well as reading several articles on the issue, I have come to the concusion that the issue here is not whether Islam teaches hate, but rather how oppressed people understand their oppression and how it relates to their view of God. A gentlemen was on C-Span a while back who wrote a book on Arab Christians in palestine. One of the things he noted that none of the Abrahamic religions (Islam, Christianity, nor Judiasm) actually teach militancy and radicallism. He noted that these are generally responses to oppression.
Consider Rev. David Walker and Nat Turner, they were under severe oppression, and both drew upon their Christian faith to advocate for a violent solution to the end of their oppression. They felt that God was on the side of the oppressed and therefore justified the violence in their war for freedom. I think the analogy applies here, with a twist.
One thing that characterises Islam is the advocacy of a strict "church-state" so to speak. some countries where Islam is the dominant religion, advocate for some of the exact punishment for crimes that the Quoran calls for (cut the hand off of the thief, etc.). While in the U.S., it is commonly held that there should be a seperation of church and state, note that this isn't so in many parts of the world. During the Gulf war, many Muslims around the world viewed the US's stationing of troops in Saudi Arabia (Home of Mecca, a very important city in the Islamic World) as the ultimate blasphemy against Allah since many Muslims feel that no one who is not Muslim should be able to tread in Mecca. With this in mind, some Muslims view what to Americans may appear to be a political issue as a religious issue (remember, no seperation between church and state). With this sentiment, it is easy to see how some people who are under political oppression in the middle east and feel that this is a result of American foreign policy, can view America as an enemy of Allah, and feel that war with America is striking a blow for Allah. While it is indeed a radical view to take in the terms of "orthodox" Islam, this by no means is particular to Muslims or Islamic teachings. The culprit here is not Islam, but political oppression.
Blackwatch!!!!!!

Re: Re: The problem isn't Islam, but political oppression
 

Being a Black man in this society, how can you possibly say this?

The word Islam...literally means peace as well as submission and obedience. If you look at in terms of its religious connotations then yes it is pertaining to the submission of oneself to Allah...however PEACE is a apart of the definition of Islam...just to throw that in there. Yes the word Jihad does mean "to strive" or "struggle" however, this is not necessarily pertaining to violence...By me reading the Quran everyday I'm in the act of jihad...by me praying five times of day I'm performing jihad...etc..Basically the act of striving for a higher moral standard/level is Jihad...therefore to say that Jihad literally means holy war is taking it to a whole other level...sure it's possible and in the case of 9/11 the terrorists thought they were achieving this higher moral level...HOWEVER they were wrong...they were not perfoming jihad.
I'm lost ...where in the Quran, I'm assuming that's what you mean by promulgation, does it promote violence? Certainly not in the word Jihad. And when in Islam's "inception" did violence become promoted? What do you mean by the maintenance of Islam is promoting violence...These terrorists are not BY FAR representational of all Muslims...therefore do not represent the "maintenance" or upkeeping of Islam. I think if you dig a little deeper into the history of Islam you will find that it has rarely used violence in its maintenance. Finally, there is NO "problem with ISLAM"...it definately does not justify unjustifiable violence...Once again the PROBLEM does not lie within ISLAM but with the INDIVIDUALS...the terrorists.

I agree with Cricket.....

I know that my perception of Islam has been tainted by the "so - called radical muslims," therefore I am in the process of doing research myself. I know the meaning behind Islam is peace..and the definition of jihad is "to strive," however, it just seems to be more there.... Because I dare say that Louis Farrakhan is not about peace. I dare say that the way Muslims want to rule there own people (in the Mid East) is not about peace, but about oppression. (unless of course you're a man).

I HEAR what Muslims say, then I see what they do. It just doesn't seem like enough of an outrage when these "radical muslims" act up.... Now this is not to say that ALL muslims want to see the bloodshed of innocent lives, but there a lot of Muslims that, by any means necessary want to see an Islamic state, .....just about everywhere.....

Maybe it's just like when people take Jesus Christ's teachings out of context and decide to do some great deed in his name....I dunno..... but I am on a mission to find out. God's people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge....so I am on a quest to find out......and beginning a dialogue on the topic is the first step. :cool:

GREAT POST!!

The Islamic State and "Jihad"
 

Love Spell 6 says...
"I HEAR what Muslims say, then I see what they do. It just doesn't seem like enough of an outrage when these "radical muslims" act up..."

What do you propose more liberal or orthodox Muslims to do? I have seen countless Muslims on various news outlets condemning the terrorism that is said to be committed in the name of "Allah" as not being within the realm of Jihad, though some scholars claim that Jihad could mean a personal struggle as well as a public religious struggle.

The difficulty Americans have is that we do not understand our foriegn policy very well. Doggystyle brings up some very good points about Muslim occupation in the Sudan and such, but let's look at the supposed reason for the terrorists attacks, American foriegn policy in its regards to Iraq and Israel. To avoid a long post, I'll just say that before we jump to the conclusion that Islam propogates or promotes violence and shedding of innocent blood, let us make an effort to understand why the rest of the world is against the U.S. invading Iraq. Try to understand why the U.S. bombed Afghanistan and have yet to find Osama ben Laden. Why the U.S. has stated that Iraq has human rights violations and weapons of mass destruction, but has not commented on China's weapons of mass destruction and its human rights violations nor stated that it wanted to bring about a regime change in China. Understand that Iraq is rich in oil and both Bush and Cheney are in the pockets of Big Oil Companies (Cheney was a CEO of Haliburton Oil and Bush made his money on oil investments in Texas).

To blame terrorism solely on Islam is shortsighted at best and uncritical at least. While some could do a critical reading of the Qu'ran and state that Jihad and the Islamic State are flawed teachings that promote violence in some individuals, let's be critical also of those U.S. foreign policies that are inspired by greed and bring anything but true democracy throughout the world. There are many circumstances that have brought us to this point in our collective experience, and before we become like the terrorists who deem violence and hate as answers to oppression, let's aspire to the higher callng in Christ to look to end oppression in all of its forms with justice and mercy. Radicalism is symptomatic of the deeper ill in our humanity, and that is oppression. Curing symptons is not healing. Healing starts at the core, ending oppression.
Blackwatch!!!!!!

Re: Re: Re: The problem isn't Islam, but political oppression
 

I wasn't speaking of Black folks here. I was referring to the fact that Muslims are freer, wealthier, and healthier here than in their native lands.

Shani26 and BlackWatch

You are both right in what you state (for the most part). Shani, I am sure in the Masjid that you attend, you do not find the inflammatory rhetoric of Arab countries and I am sure "Jihad" means a personal struggle to you and that "Islam" means peace more than "submission". I don't see terrorists in my Palestinian neighbors across the street, nor the Pakistanis three doors down. When practiced as its meant and I can infer that you do, its wonderful. I have nothing against Islam as practiced in the U.S. Shani does not have to be covered from head to toe, can drive a car, can vote, can go unaccompanied by a male family member, can marry whom she likes, can be educated, can keep her female genitalia, can practice birth control, etc. If she were a Muslim in Mecca, the home of Islam, she could do none of these things!!! It is Democracy that allows for the best expression of Islam, that makes it a beautiful religion, not the totalitarian theocracies that breed an Islam that corrupts the true meaning of Islam (peace) and Jihad (personal struggle), where sheikhs, mullahs, ayatollahs, Talibans, and Sharia stifle individuality, freedom, and spirituality and create a culture of oppression that America could never match.

But as Love6 struggles with its adherents, so do I. To say that its isolated individuals with extremists ways is not true. Contrary to what Blackwatch states, there is no U.S oppression of Islamic states (with the glaring exception of its support for Israel, Americas 51st state). I don't support any war in Iraq, but Saddam has murdered millions of his own people. The U.S has not intervened in any Arab/Muslim country and oppressed its people. The enslavement of Black Africans is still legal in most Arab countries because under Islam, it is legal to enslave a non-Muslim. There is still a huge slave trade in the Sudan, Mauretania, the Spanish Sahara, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait. Anwar Sadat and the current Saudi ambassador to the U.N are both son's of enslaved Sudanese concubines. Damn near the whole Saudi Arabian World Cup soccer team was children of slaves.

Oh, one last thing Shani, Muhammad was far from a peaceful man and early Islamic conversions were done at swordpoint and not via evangelism.

Please, let no one think that I am attacking anyone's personal spiritual beliefs because I respect good Muslims. There is a distinct difference in Islam in how it is practiced by Shani here and how it is practiced elsewhere.

Religion and its practice
 

I think that Doggystyle brings up excellent points, There is a difference between the way Islam is practiced by Shani and how it is practiced by the Taliban or the Shi-ite. I especially find it interesting when he states...

"Democracy ... allows for the best expression of Islam, that makes it a beautiful religion, not the totalitarian theocracies that breed an Islam that corrupts the true meaning of Islam (peace) and Jihad (personal struggle), where sheikhs, mullahs, ayatollahs, Talibans, and Sharia stifle individuality, freedom, and spirituality and create a culture of oppression that America could never match." emphasis added.

I agree that a certain level of democracy has allowed for the protection of individuality in the practice of Islam in the U.S. But I think we ought to caution ourselves to think that it is solely democracy that allows Islam, the way it is practiced in America, to flourish. Many people around the world view the Islam as practiced by the Taliban as acceptable. There is a case in Miami this past summer where a Muslim woman wanted to sue the DMV because she wanted to remain covered in her Driver's License photo. To us, it maybe strange, but to her, it is a matter of religious freedom.

The things that we view as wrong about Theocratic Islam and "Jihad" maybe be dead on with other people. Some Muslims might say that the Islam practiced by Shani is wrong and not true Islam. This is the risk we take as we seek to find absolute truth in our religious strivings. We seek this truth through the lens of our culture. The struggle with any religion is to try to die to the self enough to behold a truth that is universal. Genital mutilation, the oppression of women overall that is advocated by the taliban we could find abhorrent and unsettling , and wrong, but do not think that this is why America is proposing war with Iraq. Think about it doggystyle, all of the human rights violations that you describe taking place in Saudi Arabia and the Sudan, where is the call for regime change there? You are not going to hear about anything in Saudi Arabia, because of the relationship the U.S. has with the royal family there. Most of the 9-11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia!! Not Iraq, Palestine or Afghanistan.

Doggeystyle suggests that the oppression by Islamic Theocracies is much greater than anything America has done, well I think that that is relative. Sure, America is not enslaving people now, but America has. Also, there are things about American foreign policy that could be considered just as oppressive as the enslavement of non-muslims. Look at the debt that America holds many third world countries to, isn't that enslavement? Trade with certain countries that facilliatates sweatshops and child labor, changing regimes at a whim in South America (Iran-Contra) and now proposed in Iraq , all of these things , depending on your perspective, could be considered as oppressive as the Islamic Theocracies doggystyle describes.

I am not justifying any oppression anywhere by anyone, but I am cautioning us to think about what happened on 9-11 through a political lens, not a religious one. This maybe difficult, but not impossible, and it is also necessary because America's involvment is not about making the practice of Islam "right" or "acceptable" throughout the world, but to protect American interests and to reinforce American way of life throughout the world.
Blackwatch!!!!!!