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I was thinking about my past rush experiences, and I realized I still have some unanswered questions. Feel free to add onto my list http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Why is it that panhellenic tells us its the sororities job to get a rec, yet if we don't have them, we get cut?

Why is it that some houses have guestbooks to sign on each day of rush? Aren't they keeping track of us anyway?

Why aren't people given a reason why they were cut? It would offer a lot of closure rather than imaginations running wild ("am I too fat?" "am I not smart enough" etc)

Why do legacies recieve so much special consideration? We've established that all chapters of a particular sorority are different - just like members of the same family are different. An XYZ mom could be vastly different from her daughter, who doesn't fit in with the chapter, but to avoid upsetting the alumnae, she gets a bid anyway (seen it happen a LOT).

Why is it that in big rushes, a 30 minute party will be filled with 20 minutes of singing and clapping to get all the rushees into the house? Its pretty hard to connect with anyone in 10 minutes.

As to why rushees don't get a reason, it could be for legal reasons--you could sue someone for proclaiming something bad about you! Also, a lot of times there's just not a reason (as many members put in a thread about a month ago); there are bunches of great rushees and quota won't allow you to take them all.

Regarding legacies: when I was a rushee, I wanted to know why they had an easier time making it too because I knew many people who got cut were sharper, smarter, cuter, whatever than the legacies. As a member, I would sometimes cringe when a particularly awful legacy came through, knowing that we wouldn't want her with her stellar 1.5 average or her fabulous reputation (jk!)

As the mom of 9 daughters, I understand now. There's that bond you want to share..you want your daughter to be accepted and know about the traditions, the secrets, and the love you've found. I realize that with few Pi Phi chapters around, the chances I may get a Pi Phi aren't big and it's frustrating.

However, NPC's rules are only that a legacy must receive a bid to the first set of invitationals and that if she gets an invitation to prefs, she must be put on the bid list. I think that's sensible and preserves feelings without forcing choices. I've heard heard that huge numbers of legacies get cut at the bigger schools where there are more legacies to each sorority that spots in each pledge class.

But as someone who rushed as a junior, I know exactly where you're coming from...

Quote:

Originally posted by juniorgrrl:
I was thinking about my past rush experiences, and I realized I still have some unanswered questions. Feel free to add onto my list http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Why is it that panhellenic tells us its the sororities job to get a rec, yet if we don't have them, we get cut?

~~ i'm not sure why they said that. at my school, it's not essential to have recs, but it can help more than panhel lets on. some of the rushees (usually southern girls and girls with moms in sororities) seem to know to get recs, but others have no clue. i didn't have a clue. we too were told that it's the sorority's job to get a rec for you, but from the inside i've seen that that's not how it works at all. as a chapter we definitely don't go tracking down recs on the rushees. we look at what ever is sent in, but that's it.

Why is it that some houses have guestbooks to sign on each day of rush? Aren't they keeping track of us anyway?

~~ my chapter doesn't use a guestbook but i guess it's probably just to have an exact record of every girl that attended the party. otherwise it might be hard to know for sure if someone skipped out or something.

Why aren't people given a reason why they were cut? It would offer a lot of closure rather than imaginations running wild ("am I too fat?" "am I not smart enough" etc)

~~ this would be totally impractical. a lot of times there is no reason. a girl can easily just be overlooked... no one knew anything about her, so come voting time, we chose to keep girls who stood out rather than someone who we couldn't get to know. other times girls are cut for bad reasons, like a slutty rep for instance. i don't really think it would be good for either party for the sorority to formally tell a cut rushee that they think she is a slut. sometimes people are cut because they just don't click with the sisters they've talked to. i don't really think rushees have a "right" to demand to know why they are cut... i mean, if you talk to a girl in class and she doesn't want to hang out with you, she doesn't owe you an explanation. if a group doesn't want you as a member for whatever reason, they don't really owe you an explanation either. i got into a sorority the first time i rushed as a freshman but i WAS cut from a couple of houses... i realize i just didn't fit in there. do i really want to hear them say it was because they didn't like my personality or my looks or something? no, not really.

Why do legacies recieve so much special consideration? We've established that all chapters of a particular sorority are different - just like members of the same family are different. An XYZ mom could be vastly different from her daughter, who doesn't fit in with the chapter, but to avoid upsetting the alumnae, she gets a bid anyway (seen it happen a LOT).

~~ some sororities are pretty much required to give a bid to any legacy who wants to join. i think that most are NOT required to bid a girl just because of her legacy status. in my house, we can cut a legacy if we think she would not be good for the group. no one gets in JUST BECAUSE she is a legacy. she has to be cool, too, or she would be cut. once she makes it as far as pref night, though, if she wants us she will be at the top of our bid list. i guess i would like them to do the same for my own daughter.

Why is it that in big rushes, a 30 minute party will be filled with 20 minutes of singing and clapping to get all the rushees into the house? Its pretty hard to connect with anyone in 10 minutes.

~~ it doesn't really make sense, does it? this is why pre-rush contacts and recs are really important. the more you can make yourself known (in a positive light) to the sorority girls, the better you'll do in rush. the worst thing is to be a complete unknown come rush time. another thing... at my school, at least, we always try to pair the rushee up with a girl that she kind of already knows, either from home, or from class, or someone she's just randomly met at a party or whatever. that girl will take the rushee around and introduce her to other sisters.

We don't deal with recs, so I can't answer that for your.

We have guestbooks to keep track of rushees that come to the parties. Some groups have such large parties, that it's often times hard to keep track of everyone. It helps us not let anyone slip through the cracks. We also do it because our campus stopped us from taking polaroids of the girls when they came in to help us remember everyone.

The reasons people are cut...well, I can say that while it may offer closure, it's just like pouring salt in an open wound if you ask me. I didn't get cut from my pref houses, but I could imagine that if I did, I would rather just forget it and move on. And besides, does it matter??

Legacies are given special consideration because they are a blood relative of a sister. While the woman may or may not choose to become a sister, we have a current sister's feelings to worry about. I can't imagine that if I had a daughter or sister who wanted to rush D Phi E, and not getting a bid. It's respect, but more than that, it's loyalty. BUT, if she doesn't fit the ideals of the group, then I wouldn't encourage her in the first place.

Big rushes or small rushes, it's up to the chapter to fill their time wisely. It's unfortunate that your parties were filled with 20 minutes of singing and only 10 minutes of conversation. Maybe they should rethink that! Our parties were much different.

Quote:

Originally posted by carnation:

NPC's rules are only that a legacy must receive a bid to the first set of invitationals

Hi Carnation! Despite the fact that I went through 3 formal rushes as a sister, I am not sure what you mean by the first set of invitationals. Could you please explain? (afterall, I only have 12 years until my first legacy goes through rush! haha) http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

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I'm going to guess that what carnation meant was that all legacies must be invited back to house for the first couple of days of recruitment. But, if the sorority does not have room for the legacy, then this girl must be cut the day before prefs or else she is on their bid list.

ZTAngel is right!

Let's say a school has 4 days of parties and the first day rushees go to all 10 sororities. The next day, they can go back to 6, the next to 4, and the last to 2--if they get invited back to that many. A sorority would have to ask back a legacy to at least the day where you can go to 6. After that they can cut her but if they ask her back to the day where you just go to 2, they must put her on their top bid list.

Quote:

Originally posted by juniorgrrl:

Why is it that panhellenic tells us its the sororities job to get a rec, yet if we don't have them, we get cut?

Not all campuses require letters of reference and it is the responsibility of the sorority to get them if that particular chapter requires it. I think this is something that really needs to be looked at on a national (NPC) level.

Why is it that some houses have guestbooks to sign on each day of rush? Aren't they keeping track of us anyway?

I've never heard/seen guestbooks being used.

Why aren't people given a reason why they were cut? It would offer a lot of closure rather than imaginations running wild ("am I too fat?" "am I not smart enough" etc)

Because there are so many reasons why a person is cut and I think that if there is a 'bad' reason, that telling it to a potential member that is already in a fragile state of mind because they were cut, is more damaging than helpful. The obvious reasons for being cut are grades and activities. Are people cut because of appearance - yes. Do I personally agree with that, absolutely not. Also, a potential member may be cut because the sisters just don't feel like they 'click' with the girl. Even if the potential member loves chapter AAA, if the members just don't feel she would fit in, they may cut her. Also, if a potential member has a reputation that has followed her from high school, the dorm, or whereever, that may impact the chapter's decision to cut a girl.

For example, one year there were a group of 3 women going through Recruitment at my home chapter. They had high grades, lots of activities and every chapter on campus loved them. As it turned out, this little group also had a reputation as bullies - in fact, they had been arrested for assaulting a girl they didn't like by pinning the girl and her father against a garage door with their car. By looking at their application and by meeting them, you'd never know it. But when we tried to get a recommendation on them, the truth came out. In fact, all the groups on campus had the same experience and dropped these three at the same time.

Why do legacies recieve so much special consideration? We've established that all chapters of a particular sorority are different - just like members of the same family are different. An XYZ mom could be vastly different from her daughter, who doesn't fit in with the chapter, but to avoid upsetting the alumnae, she gets a bid anyway (seen it happen a LOT).

Legacies are given special consideration but as far as I know, not one of the NPC groups will guarantee a bid to a legacy. It is out of courtesy to the initiated sister (the mother, aunt or sister) that a legacy may be given an event invitation over and above the number of invites they normally would have received, but I have seen legacies cut, often brutally, once this additional courtesy has been extended. Legacies must be considered like all other potential members in terms of grades, etc.

Why is it that in big rushes, a 30 minute party will be filled with 20 minutes of singing and clapping to get all the rushees into the house? Its pretty hard to connect with anyone in 10 minutes.

Sounds like a faulty timetable. If it takes 20 minutes to get all the potential members into the house, leaving only 10 minutes, there is a problem. The party should be longer or the potential member groups should be smaller.

Barbara - actually a lot of smaller schools use guestbooks. My campus didn't use recs at all and girls could register right at Meet the Greeks, so we never knew who was coming through the door. Plus, it also shows how many women are coming back to the parties from day to day (i.e. your retention rate), and who actually comes back when they accept your invitation (i.e. no shows).

Reason for being cut - sometimes it is just intangible - like why do you like chicken better than fish. There's no "easy" answer. I do think though, that as far as grades go, girls should know if they were in the bottom tier of girls rushing, like if everyone else had over a 3.0 and they had a 2.5. At big competitive rushes, 2 girls can be on the same footing but the GPA will put you over.

Legacies - well, it's a little like if a friend sets you up on a blind date. You will give the person a second look that you might not have cause you care about your friend and want them to be happy. Since I haven't had a lot of experience with legacies in general, that's all I'll say on that topic.

I guess I would rather have someone say "we think you were too fat for our chapter" than to let my imagination run wild. When things are shrouded in mystery, they seem so much more sinister.

I have another question though. A girl in a sorority once told me about rush and getting a bid: "150 girls know where you belong better than you do"

What is up with that? I understand that the members may know the dynamics of the chapter better than the rushee, but if a rushee feels comfortable somewhere, she shouldn't question it because others think so. That statement seems to remove a lot of the choices of the rushee. Its not mutual selection if the houses have that opinion http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif

[This message has been edited by juniorgrrl (edited July 04, 2001).]

We dont use Rec's either... actually I saw it on a website, and didnt understand it at all (the site said that you had to turn in a resume and a picture- and I was like WHAT?) I go to a small school also and we use guestbooks... Anyone who wants to sign up for Recruitment (we dont say Rush either, we cant even wear old shirts that say "Rush Phi Sigma Sigma") can sign up til the first night... its different at all schools!!

<3 Ali

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With regards to legacies, I know our national is strict with this. Unless you have a really good reason (GPA, blatant disrespect, yada yada), you MUST invite a legacy back. And, if she is invited back to your pref party, you MUST have her on your first bid list. They are really strict with this, imposing fines on chapters who cut legacies without consulting HQ first. Is it fair?? I don't know...imagine if your daughter, sister, whatever got cut from your group and how that would make you feel? I would be upset, that I can say. But if she was rushing at a chapter, I'd find out as much as I could to see if she'd fit in before she went through to either encourage or discourage her from it.

Shadokat, I'm glad you said that about getting a little background information before really encouraging a legacy to pledge. I've been kind of trying to find out information on the Pi Phi chapters at schools that my 2 senior daughters might go to next year because in all honesty, I will be more "Panhellenically oriented", shall we say, if I find out something I don't like. I hope I can be more or less neutral for their sakes but at some schools I might feel MORE neutral about what they pledge than at others.

Yes, I know I should encourage them to pledge the sororities that fit them best and that's what I'll probably do out loud. However, in my heart, I know I'll be hoping for Pi Phi...just being honest!

Carnation, while you'd love your daughters to be in your sorority, you know you want them to be happy as well. You're such a good mom to look into their options with them. Just remember, even if ONE of them becomes Pi Phi, then you've got your legacy continuing http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Okay about the cutting people and not telling them why, I can give you a few examples of why from my chapter and other sororities..

A girl came through rush last year that had a reputataion for sleeping around. It wasn't known how accurate this was until a sisters admitted her brother had slept with this girl numerous times and talked very negatively about her... Now, would you like to call a girl and say "WE are dropping you because you slept with Janie's brother your senior year?"

Another girl was dropped from a sorority because she showed up to a party and reeked as though she hadn't taken a shower in days. Would you like to call a girl and say "Sorry you were cut because you smelled".

Case #3 A girl came through rush and told a girl in XYZ that she hated a girl in ABC because she had dated her exboyfriend and begane talking about weird things she had done to her. She didn't know that the girl she was talking to currently dated him. Now picture calling her and saying "You were cut because Tammy was afraid you would go psycho on her for dating your ex boyfriend too"/

I mean if it was something like grades I understand, but we tell the girls our minimum GPA before they come through. THey already know that. You couldn't just tell some rushees why they were dropped and others why they weren't.

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