Southwest airlines policy
 

I heard in the news recently that Southwest Airlines has a new policy where they are going to charge overweight passengers for two tickets on their planes. What do you think of this policy? Is it fair? unfair? discriminatory?

Have you ever had to sit next to an overweight person on an airplane?? If you are sitting in coach, those seats are just big enough for an average sized person. While it may be unfair to an overweight person, it will be more comfortable for everyone.

Please don't anyone take this the wrong way, but do they get two snacks also if they have to pay for an extra seat?

I'm not being a smarta$$, it's a valid question!

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I'm going to have to disagree here simply because many people that are overweight simply can't help the fact. True, there are diets and programs out there, but many are too afraid and/or ashamed to try to do something about it. I think that charging an overweight person for two tickets is outrageous. Besides, what is going to distinguish the cut off line between paying for one ticket or two tickets? Are they going to make people get up on a weight scale?

interesting articles on this controversy
 

Here is an interesting defense of Southwest's policy.....

Libertarians defend Southwest Airlines' policy of charging 'jumbo' flyers for two seats


[Washington, DC] The American Obesity Association should drop its complaint against a Southwest Airlines policy of charging overweight passengers for an extra seat, Libertarians say, because it flies in the face of common sense.

"This threatened lawsuit is so ridiculous that, frankly, we're having a little trouble getting our arms around it," said Steve Dasbach, Libertarian Party executive director. "Why shouldn't a business be able to charge customers more money if they use more of a particular product?"

Southwest Airlines came under fire for its policy of charging "jumbo" flyers for two seats on Wednesday when the American Obesity Association said it may file a lawsuit - or even ask Congress to outlaw the two-ticket policy. The airline says it has stepped-up enforcement of its 20-year-old policy in response to complaints that obese passengers who wedge themselves into one seat were making things "uncomfortable" for other flyers.

The rationale used to challenge Southwest’s policy? It's not their fault they're overweight.

Miriam Berg, president of the Council on Size & Weight Discrimination, said, "If a person takes up more than one seat, that's not the problem of the person, that's the problem of the seat."

"Instead of acknowledging the reality that overweight people consume more space, these customers are trying to force a business to give them something for free," Dasbach said. "The good news is that two similar lawsuits against Southwest Airlines - one in 1990 and one in 2000 - were decided in the company's favor. The bad news is that if Congress decides to 'weigh in,' anything can happen.

"For example, the Americans with Disabilities Act defines obesity as a disability in some cases, but so far the law hasn't been used to force airlines to give up an extra seat. However, disability lawyers, inspired by the Southwest Airlines controversy, are already pushing Congress to reverse that."

But if Congress can prohibit airlines from charging overweight people for two seats, Libertarians ask, what's next?

* Should restaurants be forced to fork over "super-sized" portions of food to overweight people, at no extra charge?

* Should bars be prohibited from charging customers for a second, third, or fourth drink if they claim "it's not their fault" that they can't stop drinking?

* Should a men's clothing store be compelled to charge 7-foot-1-inch basketball star Shaquille O'Neal the same price for a suit as an average man?

* Should it be illegal for a home-builder to charge large families more money because they need a bigger house?

"Common sense dictates that companies can't have a one-size-fits-all pricing policy," Dasbach said. "But when has common sense ever stopped Big Government from throwing its weight around?"


And here is a link for general info on the policy, from the Washington Times: http://www.washtimes.com/business/20020619-692750.htm

Makes sense but still harsh........
 

Charging overweight people for two tickets is way harsh. In a perfect world, airlines would just build planes with bigger seats (but we know that's not going to happen. That would cost more money for materials and for the fact that you could cram fewer people on a plane).

I guess the airlines are trying to make everyone a little more comfortable (and of course, make money in the process. Charging one person for two tickets? They must be cackling over this and giving each other high fives right now).

It's not fair to overweight people to have to pay more, but if they really do need two seats, then I *guess* this might be okay. Don't xx-large clothes cost more than small clothing, for example? Or (a really really terrible analogy, I'm sorry I need to relate this situation to beds) how about king-sized bedspreads costing more than twin-sized bedspreads. More of a product, more cost. SW is justified.

But Damasa got me thinking...how on earth will they determine who needs two seats? Will they break out measuring tape to measure your girth? How awful would that be? "I'm sorry, sir, I'd like to let you board the plane but you're a little on the large side...could you please step aside while I size you up and humiliate you in front of the entire airport?"

And by the gates will they have scales so you can figure out your fat content next to those boxes that let you figure out if your carry-on will fit?

Just build planes with bigger seats. Sheesh.

ps: I just read AlphaGam-Alum's post,and she mentioned that bigger clothes do not cost more. I just thought maybe they would. Thanks. :)

I think its perfectly reasonable to charge for 2 seats if the people are so large that they spill over into the next seat. Like the article said, should stores be forced to sell suits for a large person at the same price as one for an 'average' sized person?

If I'm sitting to an obese person who's body overflows into my seat, will I get charged half price because I am only getting a portion of my seat? Probably not.

As far as I know, the ADA classifies a disability as a mental or physical condition which cannot be cured or reversed. Obesity has many "cures." Therefore, it is not a disability.

I'm so sick of people in this world wanting everyone to feel sorry for them for some reason or another.

I guess one way to work around this situation is to offer a handful of "oversized" seats on each flight, available at an increased fare. However, this would probably result in another discrimination lawsuit - a claim that they were being unfairly separated or segregated from the other passengers.

While you wouldn't have a scale at an airport, it is reasonable to say that seats have height/weight limitations. I'm sure this is true of all sorts of chairs, beds, etc. Its just something that these people will have to deal with. If they know they weigh 400 lbs and the seat can only fit someone weighing 300 or less, they will just have to deal.

The fact is, we are all different, and have different problems, features, abilities, disabilities, etc. This world would be a lot better if people just learned to deal with their own disabilities rather than wanting the world to compensate.

There was a huge amount of posts about this on another board I visit. Apparently, Southwest has a "first come first served" policy - they do not preassign seats - and there will be some sort of "silhouette" that passengers have to go through.

I agree with the policy to a point - it's unfair and uncomfy for everyone, the overweight person who has to wedge into one seat and the person who has to sit next to them. If a person takes up two seats, that is one less seat the airline can sell.

It seems that the best remedy would be to have a row or two of "bench seats" like on city buses, for a slightly higher fare, that you can request when making your reservation. These would probably be easier not just for obese people, but people with physical handicaps, walkers, etc. Of course, you have to count on someone being self aware enough to request it. I know though, if I weighed 500 pounds, I would want to be comfy rather than have someone glare at me all through the flight because I am spilling into their seat.

HA HA HA--- you guys have never been shopping with a 7foot man before--clothing or shoes!!!
As I have mentioned before my husband is 7foot tall--and NO his clothes are not more expensive than mine. And his shoes are not more expensive than mine--they may be more difficult to find-but when you can find them, his size 15 shoes is the same price as my size 7 shoe. We've had salesmen tell us (if I mention his shoes are expensive) that they should be more since he is getting more shoe than the average person. My husband always smiles and tells them, if that is the case then they should charge less for mine-since I am getting less shoe than the average person.

:) :) :) Wendi:) :) :)

larger clothing costing more
 

Hey alphagam-alum,

I think the article meant that larger men's clothes can legitimately cost more than "regular-sized" men's clothes. (you were comparing the cost of your man's clothes to the cost of your own). For instance, I was recently looking at bikinis in a J.Crew catalogue, and for one set the "regular" sized bikini top (for A/B cup-sized women) was $30, while the C/D option cost $34. Is this unfair to larger-breasted women? It's not their fault their boobs are on the big side.

I don't think this is unfair, and I am one of the women who would have to pay the extra $4 to get a bikini top that fits.

I think it's totally reasonable for a company that sells men's suits to charge one price for a suit that fits men of average build/height and a slightly higher price for a man that requires twice the fabric. I'm pretty sure this is already done... try looking at some catalogs that offer regular sizes along with big & talls.

Here a company (Land's End) is charging extra for "long" as opposed to regular length tuxedo pants: http://www.landsend.com/cd/fp/prod/0...21154749195000

Having been in a middle seat between two obese people spilling over their armrests :( I can definitely appreciate Southwest's position. But the seats are so darn small that the last time I fit comfortably into one, I was about 12 years old - and I'm not all that tall or heavy. How uncomfortable must it be for someone who weighs 300+ lbs to wedge themselves into that space?

I agree with the idea of "oversized" seats that passengers can request for a small fare increase. Say, seats the size of first-class seats, but located in coach and receiving the same service level as other coach passengers.

I think one of the criteria that Southwest is using, is whether the passenger requires a seat belt extension. Other than that, it's up to the ticket agent or gate agent.

The more weight on an aircraft, the more fuel is used. That is a measurable increase in cost of doing business. In theory, that additional cost due to "heavier" peope being on board is passed on to the rest of us in our ticket costs. On the other hand, the airline, again in theory, makes out on a child's ticket I suppose.

And, as a frequent flyer, I have to say that I cringe when I see a heavy person heading my way down the aisle.

In terms of larger seats, that would cut down on the number of passengers on all flights. Since ticket prices are (again in theory) predicated on high seat usage, if less passengers were on each flight, prices would have to be increased in order for the airlines to make money -- which a lot of the aren't already. Which is worrisome, because most of the flights I take these days are packed!

As long as they get two seats for the price of two tickets, I have no problem with that. I doubt SWA is doing this, though. Alternatively, perhaps they could randomly place larger seats throughout the plane and charge a little more.

No solution is perfect. Someone will be pissed off one way or another. That's life.

I’m so confused as to why they will be also charging taller people for two seats.

Charging obese people for two seats while taking steps to eliminate double booking by business travelers (a practice that some use to avoid overnight stays since same-day round trip prices are so jacked up).

Airlines need to stop being so damned inconsistant!