Numbers
 

The thread about quantity vs quality is closed, but I sooo wanted to post. I dont understand why sororities are so into getting as many girls as possible. Sorority life isn't who has more girls, its about getting along with ur sisters, having a good time. Thats why I believe that quality should be looked upon first during both formal and informal rushes. My sorority only has about 30 girls right now, and total is 45. Some girls want to reach that number, but I think it just causes stress and animosity. I say if we have tons of girls with great personalities that fit in well, then lets take them (as long as its within total rules). And if there are only 5 girls that meet these things, then we only take 5. Unfortunately not everyone thinks like that. I love not having a lot of girls. We get to be closer and have a better sisterhood. U get to know almost all of ur sisters. I'd rather have quality sisters, than a bunch of girls just so our numbers can be higher than another org's.

------------------
I duno what I been told, Phi Mu girls are made of gold!
Phildo
PM W'00

I agree with you completely. I think numbers are insignificant if you don't have quality. My chapter is small, with only 26 girls right now. Before our seniors graduated in May, we still only had 33. Personally, I'd rather be able to know all of my sisters. I've heard that other chapters of my sorority have so many girls that they don't even recognize each other outside of meetings! And sometimes the most popular sorority isn't the best. I won't say who or what school, but I've heard horrible things about a sorority at one school that has over 150 members. Obviously they're pretty popular to have that many girls, but the stuff I heard is not stuff you want being said about you.

I believe in quantity and quality.

I came from a local who wanted to "be small" and we almost died because of it. If we hadn't gone national with A Phi I know my chapter wouldn't be there anymore. Even after going national I do not think my chapter was convinced that being at ceiling/total was the way to go. However they are at ceiling now and not only three times as many members as when I was in school but continue to be cool down to earth women.

Being the largest on campus shouldn't be filled with negative labels. These are successful groups that have long-term viability on a campus. The smallest groups while having successful sisterhood do tend to have issues recruiting and are in danger of dropping off campus (especially when quota's start to decline).

My advice to PM_Mama00 is to grow one class at a time so that in 4 years your chapter will be at ceiling. That way the growth won't seem "all of a sudden" and yet you will be strengthening your chapter.

I agree, quality over quantity is important. But you also have to remember that your national organization runs off of the monies that you pay in dues and such. So if every chapter only had 25 girls, they probably wouldn't have enough to exist, even if your chapter did. So it's good that some groups have 200 sisters...they may not have the same experience as those of us with 40 sisters, but each group is different.

HOORAY FOR APHIGIRL!

As a volunteer, I can't TELL you how frustrating it has been for me to watch some fo our really good chapters die/suffer from the "economies of scale" that hurt shrinking membership. The old Quality vs. Quantity argument is fundamentally flawed. MANY HAVE BOTH! Why be concerned with numbers? For me, it comes down to my love of the Order, and wanting to share that with as MANY QUALIFIED men as possible. I have just seen too often the "we want quality" argument used as an excuse for each member putting anything less than a 100% effort into recruitment. If you each put that kind of effort into recruitment and don't grow - fine, but PLEASE give others the benefit of your best work!

As far as a 150 person chapter not knowing each other - same thing, they're just not trying hard enough. I have personal involvement in some HUGE chapters - that REALLY work at creating tons of personal relationships, and yes, they all know each other well. And funny thing, they never have to worry about funds, attendance, attracting leaderhip, etc.

Try it

Brad

a rush shirt i saw said it best

XYZ Quality IN quantity


------------------
------------------
No funny squiggles, just bold letters: TKE

I guess I should rephrase myself. It is good to have quantity. One sorority on my campus was in danger of losing their charter because of numbers. They were down to 10 girls, and in Fall 2000 they doubled their numbers during Rush. We were so happy for them because they are a great group of girls. I know a sorority on another campus that this happend to. But they got so obsessed with getting girls, they started taking girls that werent that interested, not getting along with other girls, and girls who just didnt care what kind of reputation they had. So thats what I mean about quantity and quality.

I agree that both are important, but strong NPC groups are at total with quality members. I think that's the challange.

ECU has all housed chapters, so not being at total would hurt their housing and that wouldn't help longevity. We want a good group of 65 women at all times, it's difficult sometimes, but that what makes it interesting.

That is the MAIN reason Formal Recruitment is so important, we want to be at total then so we don't have to look elsewhere afterward.

This is a good topic...I have seen chapters bost about always making quota, but if you make it with all questionable girls and that hurts the chapter, what is the point?

I totally believe that it's all about the quality of girls...I've seen a lot of houses go DOWN beause they took TOO many girls that weren't usually up to their standards, but they wanted the numbers and the money that came along with having more girls. Theta fell into this hole 4 years ago, and we are still hurting because of it. We tool girls that weren't up to par, and paid for it with our reputation. We have worked lond and hard to improve our house since then, and now we only take small classes, we are criticized and even made fun of because we have such small houses, but unlike a good majority of the houses, we cut girls VERY early during rush if we don't feel they are right for our houses. I know of many sad stories where houses keep girls all the way to pref, just for the numbers, to be able to pick from the cream of the crop at the very end, and then screw a whole bunch of girls! This past Spring rush, we felt that only 4 girls were Theta girls, and gave out only four bids, we had many, many more rush, but that's all we wanted to extend.

I'm looking forward to rush and to meeting all the great girls, but we aren't into taking girls just to take them!

Topic dear to my heart....

When I went through rush I was wavering between ASA & AST. One of the things that put ASA over the top for me was that it WAS a smaller house (around 35, as compared to AST's 50). That's not a reflection on AST, who were and are lovely women, that's just the way I wanted it. I was afraid I would get lost in the shuffle in a group that was too big.

I don't think the quality vs. quantity argument is "fundamentally flawed" like Brad says - maybe there is a better way to put it. Something like "continuously maintain high standards." Even being in a smaller group, there was never a time when we didn't cut girls, not to purposely stay small, but because the fit was just not right. When we took 14, it was because they were 14 quality girls. When we took 5, it was because that was all we thought were right for us - not because we couldn't have more.

And everyone who said that when you go down is when you take girls just to have warm bodies, is TOTALLY right. It destroys a chapter because the members feel the girl isn't up to snuff, and because the girls themselves aren't stupid and often KNOW they are just there to pump the numbers up. And the smaller the group, the more important the interpersonal dynamics. All it takes is 2-3 people to really throw a monkey wrench into things. At small schools there are going to be down years where the recruitment pool might be lacking. That's just a fact of life.

Bottom line, not everyone NEEDS or WANTS to be in the largest sorority on campus and I think that this should be respected more by nationals (who obviously don't have to live with the girls every day). Once again, this is the reason Chi O, DZ, ZTA are so large. ZTA's 200 person chapter at Texas A & M offsets the 20 person chapter at Wherever U. The key is diversity in size and type of chapters.

ecukd...How's the house shopping going for you all? Have you found anything yet? I swear...every time I pass by a house for sale near campus I size it up for its sorority house potential. I'm so curious to see where you'll end up.

Well, you are looking at the President of their House Corp, so needless to say, they will be housed ASAP!

We are working on different ideas, but will have some news this Fall. I cannot get too in depth, since the chapter isn't back from break, I cannot spill the beans yet!

All I can say is that Greenville, NC must be one the the most difficult cities to get a house! If you guys would like to switch, we wouldn't mind buying your pretty house!

Thanks for your concern!

------------------
Lexi
122400

The old debate...Well, I will tell you that it is QUANTITY all the way when taking new members during formal recruitment. Obviously, you do not take women who have wronged a sister, but you MUST take the mediocres, if I can be non-PC for a moment. If every other chapter is taking quota, you can not afford not to do so as well.
During formal recruitment, women will notice if your chapter is smaller than others, and they will wonder why. Usually, they will assume the worst. However, if you have many girls, they will not look at one and think "I'll bet her GPA sucks."

Many women who are not stellar when going through rush will turn out to be invaluable to the sorority. Some women learn to dress better and wear more attractive make-up. Some women learn social skills. Some learn proper etiquette. Some learn to be leaders. Some learn to study. Some have fabulous qualities that just won't come out during rush. You can't tell if a girl is a great shoulder to cry on by meeting her for twenty minutes.

If your chapter is truly strong, you can instill many qualities in these women. My pledge class likes to joke about what some of us were like freshman year. Obviously, different women gained different things, but everyone has grown. We talk about first impressions, and how glad we are that we had open minds.

Let me repeat that I am not telling anyone to take awful women or men. Any sister or brother should be respected if there is a PNM that they absolutely do not want in your chapter.

Others, however, deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Well since this is a PC board according to chickclick (har har) I'll say that's one of the grossest things I've ever heard.

There were some rushees that didn't really make an impression on me, but there were always one or two sisters who could speak up and say "well she works at the TV station with me & is really funny" or something of value. If no one in the chapter can think of anything special to say about her except "we need the body" that to me is a pretty big risk to take.

I'm not saying every pledge has to be the smartest prettiest ever, but there should be something that stands out for you or your sisters. It may not be something that another chapter sees but if YOU see it that is what counts. Maybe to someone outside looking in she is "mediocre" but she shouldn't have to begin her Greek life with the women who are going to be her sisters thinking that about her.

I am sorry that you do not like my terminology, but I think that we are otherwise in agreement. My point is that not every girl will be the prettiest or most talkative, but she may have a lot to contribute. At my school, over 1200 visit our chapter, so often we do not know each one. If she doesn't make a particular impression on the members in 35 minutes, she may still be an awesome girl.