Are we scaring off our men?
 

Hello Sorors and Happy Belated Founder's Day!!!!

I was reading an email today and wanted to see what everyone thought of this excerpt.

"Many modern women are so independent, so self-sufficient, so committed to the cause, to the church, to careers, sororities, etc. that their entire personalities project an "I dont need a man" message. So they end up without one. Any interested man maybe attracted, but he soon discovers that this sister makes very little space for him in her life. Sometimes in our determined efforts to be strong believers and hard workers, we contemporary women downplay, denigrate or simply forget our more traditional feminine attributes. Men value women best for the ways we are different from them. Not the ways we are the same. "

Do you think that we are our own worst enemies when it comes to relationships? By stressing our independence, self-sufficiency and high levels of education, are we really pushing men away by not making room for them in our lives? Or, are the men we are dealing with simply not MAN enough to handle a strong independent woman?

What are your thoughts??

YID,

My thoughts...
 

Soror,

I think that you've brought up a great discussion topic. Personally, I think there's some truth to what the brotha stated in the excerpt. We as women have become more independent in today's society. I feel that deep down inside, we all want a man in our life, but we're sick of the games, lies, cheating, etc., so we choose to move on and make great strides on our own. When the time comes for a "real" man to step to us, he might feel intimidated by our demeanor. BUT, if he's a real man, he would step up anyway. Ultimately, that's what we, independent women, want out of our significant others.

Boo!

I personally think this is a great topic seeing that there are so many women out here without someone. Or should I say with a man who is dogging them or cheating on them. I think some of us might be scaring off our men! What are some of the things we are not doing to continue to please our mate. Why does the man always get tired or displeased. Women need to keep the same atitude they had from the beginning of the relationship. Because if you were why are we dumped or cheated on.

Nothing is wrong with independence and any man that is intimtated by that is not worth the trouble but problems cannot totally lie with the men in the world..............what is it that makes it difficult for independant women to maintain relationships when they are seeking it...........perhaps they have a problem with others doing for them because they feel that this other person is trying to control them is one thing I have heard.....but my only question is are men all to blame for this situation or can women find some area in this.

Sphinxpoet

Spinxpoet,

It would be totally wrong of us to say that men are the only ones to blame for why relationships dont work. Its always easy to put the blame else where, but the challenge is to sometimes look at ourselves and see what we could do differently.

As for being independent and not wanting to accept help from a man, I have also heard alot woman say that they wont accept help because then the guy feels like he can control you. But I think there is also another reason behind why some women will not accept help. There are some men, who will offer to help, but then turn around a few weeks or months later and throw the fact that they helped you out at one point.. right back in your face. I personally dealt with that situation once, and I told myself from that point on, that I would do everything on my own. So if a man offers to help me out, Im very cordial and sincere when I say "no thank you"... Its not meant to turn him away or make him feel like I dont need him.

Thats just my 4 cents :)

Are we scaring off our men?
 

Hello to all at Greekchat,


I have enjoyed reading all of the replys, to a certain extent I feel that a woman can drive a man away.

Do you all remember the movie "Soul Food"? Vanessa Williams played the character who was a prominent Lawyer. All throughout the movie her husband constantly tried to get her to spend time with him and to see his band play, but she was always "busy". Also whenever he would share with her his desires musically she criticized them and nagged him. I imagine that left him feeling unloved and unwanted, anyone worth their salt would get tired of that. :rolleyes:

Let me first say that I am not "Mother Love", and no one needs to be so gullible to just fall for "game". You should never compromise who you are fundamentally just to say that you have them. Nothing is worth that, no Man, no job. Nothing. But, if you are constantly play the "hard to get" role and never have time for your significant other- you come across as being conceited and you become just that "hard to get". You then become undesirable and they will leave your "Strong and Independent" self ALONE.:eek:

Remember "What you take for granted... can be taken".

That aint it.
 

First let me say Wassup to yall.

This is a good topic, but there are several questions in it that may have different answers. Your independence doesn't frighten real men; it's THE ATTITUDE that comes with it that pushes us away. If you are indeed independent, you don't have to tell us. Believe me; it will be obvious.

Another thang that could accompany some women's independence is the assumption that the men they meet don't have ambition, and that we have the same opportunities as you. We have ambition; and opportunity is a bigger problem for us than it is for yall. I expect that last statement to draw some heat; therefore, before it starts, I'm asking yall to honestly think about it. When you're on your lunch break, driving down the street; check out who's on the street. Check out who's drivin' what, and imagine where they're going. Look at the places where you all work, and count the number of bruthas working there too. What positions do these bruthas hold? What level of decision-making authority do they have? How long have they been with the company/employer?

Contrary to popular belief, it aint cause we don't want to work.

Re: That aint it.
 

Re: That aint it.
 

The funny thing is that most women that claim to be INDEPENDENT really aren't (financially or mentally). They're just alone, there's a big difference. In my circle of friends, the common thread between those of us with healthy relationships is the presence or absence of a father as a child. If you haven't had a model of how men and women make room for one another in their lives in the context of a marriage, it is very difficult (but not impossible) to do it as an adult. It takes a lot of compromise, communication, and setting priorities. The arguments some of my friends get in with their boyfriends are ridiculous but somehow they had a model of a woman that fought and argued for everything so they think that is what they need to do. The fact that many of them are more professionally stable than their mothers were makes their attitude even worse!!

can i say AMEN to that
 

crucialcrimson,
you are so right. i am speaking for myself and the friends that i have when i say this:
it seems that women including myself who have grown up in a single mother household are so "independent" that they don't know how to let a man in their lives. when i say that i mean that they don't know how to let a man BE a man and that can turn a lot of men away. i watched my mom raise me and my brother in a dynamic way that for a while caused me to say that i didnt want to get married because "i don't need no man." now that i have a boyfriend, i have to remind myself to let him do for me without feeling like i am giving up my independence or "self-stability." i'm not talking about opening doors or paying the check at dinner (well yea that too), but i mean letting a man into your heart and soul and being. that can be heard and something that a woman must work at constantly especially if she didnt have that mother-father thing growing up.
i know that my friends and i talk about it all the time. and i work at it constantly. but women must realize that you can have love and your independence at the same time.

thats just my $19. 20. sorry if that was too long.

Re: can i say AMEN to that
 

That is actually the point.......You can have both! Ladies do not feel a man is trying to control you when he does good things or spends money on you....men no matter HOW much money you spend you do not own these women, you must respect each others independence.

Allow each other mistakes without saying "I told you so!" all the time, in any form shape or fashion.

Sphinxpoet

First of all, as a black man, I'd like to point out that I think it cuts both ways. On the one one hand, we have our black women, capable of almost anything, who have carried our race since "forever". On the other, we have the "independent" woman, whose said emancipation scares men away. Let me say something which will probably cause controversy.
Personally, I'd rather have a strong, "independent" woman, one who is capable of holding it all down, family-wise, if something ever happened to me. Most importantly, as has been alluded to in earlier post, the term "independence" is subject to different definitions. Give the average black homemaker a shot in the workforce, and I'll bet good money that she'll make it.
Bottom line is a woman being independent is no excuse to leave our woman single, nor is it just cause to cheat, as in "Soul Food".
There are worse things to contend with in today's society for a black man than to have a strong, "independent" woman. I admit, I'd love to give my baby everything she wants, to pamper her head to foot; Nevertheless, her strength will always be a turn on. I know I'd always be number one to her, and vice-versa.

Unfortunately, our sistas are in a conumdrum not of their making. The "strong black woman/independent woman" complex is a necessary mechanism for dealing with the numerical imbalance of eligible men who fit the proper socio-economic/lifestyle criteria that is the right of similarly situated women. Couple this with the dearth of proper male role models and negative experiences of family members and peers, it is easy to see why so many get caugt in this Catch-22. As Original Ape has stated, most men appreciate a woman who can do for self. What "real men" don't want to hear is the underlying attitude of "I don't need you" or "I'm above you", or "I can do without you".

Our Black sistas get saddled with the extra bagge of having to be emotionally tough and to guard their vulneabilities to the point of becoming unapproachable, cold, indifferent, or difficult. For the Brotha that has many options (the one most desirable to the black female), this attitude can be very off-putting. Brothas who don't feel the need to be challenged will simply move on.

To touch on another OA point, as long as 2/3 of all black college students continue to be women, as long as over 70% of teenage girls grow up in a female headed home, and as long as brothas continue to fight themselves, their women, the police, racism,and the lure of criminality, the Black woman will always have the need to be "independent" for their mere survival. The fallout is that this very independence many times upsets the delicate balance that is the basis for succssful male/female relationships.

Amen, Doggystyle, Amen.
I came to that realization as a college student at Howard. The number of Black men in college seems to be dwindling rapidly. It saddens me to see more men and teens hanging on my corner than in school.