Let's Be Honest Here.....
 

I have read, and in my retro story mentioned, that my house wasn't (in my case) a top tier house. In fact, because we were the "Jewish" house we were the bottom house because most of the rushees who weren't Jewish wouldn't, at that time, consider a Jewish house. So, out of 800 pnms...probably 750 considered an invitation to our house the kiss of death (or boredom/rejection) from the "good houses."

When I read posts from girls who drop out of rush because the remaining houses aren't "top tier" I keep wanting to scream, "Who are the women in the houses that aren't "good enough" for you? Will these women be there for you in good times and bad? Are you looking beyond the superficial? Do you honestly think that your social life will be better/doomed/nonexistant if you join House F rather than House A+?

I am wondering if some of us who joined a non top tier house would be willing to come foward and relate their experience with their sisters and why keeping options is a good thing?

With all due respect, I don't think that the discrimination a Jewish chapter faces from PNMs is quite the same as the discrimination a bottom-tier chapter faces. The end result (as in numbers) may be the same, but I think the reasons would be different. In the case of the bottom-tier group I think it really is what you described - a lack of humility that the PNM could lower herself to be associated with that group. I went through rush a million years ago and we had several Jewish chapters. I never thought of them as bottom-tier, but I didn't feel comfortable because the Jewish culture was an important part of those chapters.

When I went through rush trust me my sorority was the bottom tier simply because while Christian girls could join our house (and one did) many fraternities spred the rep that Jewish girls weren't pretty. (Since one of my sister married a very famous person and was simply gorgeous that didn't enter into their equation). And absolutely, tent talk is very powerful. But I was wondering if...some of us with the perspective of shall I say more years under our belts...give some reassurance that choosing a non tier one house might be the best thing that can happen to you? (as opposed to not having a home or being the odd woman out in a house where you aren't truly accepted?

Exactly. Plus, at some schools, there are tiers within the several chapters that are primarily Jewish.

Now, if the chapter really ISN'T that Jewish anymore (i.e. if only half the women in it are Jewish) and that isn't being conveyed, that's a different matter.

As for the question, I had it answered when I was still in college, when girls who'd been torn between the "top" house and ours were saying they made a mistake and wished they'd pledged us instead. But then again I went to a smaller school w/ a smaller Greek system.

There was a thread a couple years back from a very honest poster at a very big Greek school where she said that yes, if you join one of the "bottom tier" houses, you DO suffer as far as your social life is concerned. At some (but definitely not all) schools it's like that and I certainly wouldn't tell a girl "hey, the sisterhood as an adult is worth it" if you're sitting at home w/ your sisters while everyone else is out at mixers and homecoming pairings. It's NOT worth it if you're going to be miserable for 4 years.

Hey everyone! I've been lurking around here for awhile and finally decided to get my own screen name.

I'm a Junior at a VERY tiny school (1200 students!) in the South. We have four sororities, and there's a pretty significant rivalry between some of the groups. Two groups, in particular, are known to fight for PNM's.

On my overnight visit as a Senior, I stayed with and fell in love with the girls in the most popular sorority on campus. When Rush week came around, I was absolutely sure that I would end up there. However, I fell in love with my grandmother's sorority, which was one of the less popular two. On Pref Night, I had a fairly unique dilemma-- I had to choose between the "It" girls and the not so popular girls.

I hate to admit this now, but in my defense, I was 18 and very naive-- I made my decision based on what was "cool" and preffed the popular chapter.

On Bid Day, I was devastated to see that they had not given me a bid, but that my legacy chapter had. I think for me, it was harder to accept the fact that I had been rejected by anyone at all than to accept that I wouldn't be joining that particular sorority.

Since then, I've experienced life in one of the "bottom tier" chapters, while seeing "what could have been" in my face every single day. And you know, I wouldn't change it for the world.

While the other chapter typically has girls begging to get in, and they have the best mixers and parties, I'm so at home in my group that I can't imagine anything else.

Sure, it sucks to hear that your sorority is "lesser" or "uncool," but I know the truth-- I was just fortunate enough to stumble upon a hidden gem.

I know it's a little different, since I do go to such a small school (although we are 60% Greek!) but it's the same concept. I've discovered that all of my sisters are here because they WANT to be, rather than having the few girls who are just there for the sake of being able to say "Oh, well I am a XYZ at ABC University."

Sorry for the long and rambling first post!! I just have too much to say about everything. :)

Certainly not at Maryland. (Meaning the Jewish chapters are not bottom tier.)
This is one of the things I like about my chapter. We're not perceived as a "bad" chapter to be in, but we're not a "name" chapter that PNMs would "brag" for name recognition and join for that reason alone.

Absolutely

I'll quote irishpipes in her recruitment story (one of my favorites) because I think she says it well...

I am totally aware that my sorority is considered a popular house at some universities and at others..not so much. In fact while I rushed at one school I had to transfer in my junior year to another university where I affiliated with my sorority. At my second school it was one of the top houses. At the second school there was another Jewish house which wasn't doing very well at all. (As an aside a former next door neighbor was a member of the second tier Jewish house at my second school: She wasn't my cup of tea..nor was I hers). My feelings here are in no way about a Jewish house being at the bottom just because it is Jewish. It is about a girl refusing to pledge F house because, despite the fact that there are nice women there...and she feels comfortable...and she likes them...the girl refuses to pledge because it is house F and the name cache is not there. PeaceLoveClass is a perfect example of how fate can step in and help you out.

I guess I misinterpreted your initial post as implying that by virtue of being Jewish it was bottom-tier. Thanks for the clarification.

When I went through recruitment, I was invited back to a certain lower-tier house for several rounds. Honestly, I was not impressed with their songs, video, or skit and the girls I was paired with were hard to talk to. I tried really hard to give this chapter a chance, but I just couldn't see myself there. The girls acted as if they were bottom tier, and it showed.

Come to find out, that chapter just doesn't like dealing with formal recruitment and prefers to do COR. They're also an awesome group of girls who are very active in campus activities. But none of their great qualities were apparent during recruitment.

You might want to make sure your chapter isn't in a similar situation. The Jewish factor will probably make it hard to get your numbers up, but it's important to improve your chapter in as many ways as possible and polish your recruitment skills.

That said, the chapter I ended up joining was not top tier, but it was home. The girls were very NORMAL, and this appeals to PNMs. They are the only pref ceremony I attended. It hurt to be cut by so many chapters, but I kept my options open because a) I felt a connection with some of the girls in that house and b) I really, really wanted to be a in a sorority.

Thing is, most sororities are very similar to one another. There are probably five or six houses on my campus (out of 13) in which I would be just as happy as I am now.

But think of how many girls pledge XYZ and eventually drop. They're not feeling the whole sorority thing, or maybe not feeling that particular sorority. Girls who drop out of formal are generally the same types of girls, so maybe it's best that they do.

I don't feel the least bit sorry for those girls who chose to drop out b/c the "top tier" or "best" sororities dropped them....and then cry that they went "bidless" They are the ones missing out on what could have been a great sorority experience. And to be honest, if someone thought they were too good for my chapter, I wouldn't want them there anyway.

What pnm's forget is that the ones they wanted for whatever reason didn't want them back and chose to cut them... but there are other groups that genuinely are interested in them that the pnm is saying they are too good for... hmmm.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I can't even keep count of how many sorority women here ended up at their second or third or maybe even last choices, that later went on to discover that house they ended up in truly was their place and went on to have wonderful college & sorority experiences and wouldn't trade that house for the world.

All I can comment on was my own experience. Out of 18 chapters (25 years ago), we had 3 traditionally Jewish houses. None of them were considered bottom-tier. You are correct that many girls cut them based strictly on rumors (one girl I knew cut them because someone told her she would need to convert).

What has since happened is that all chapters now take large numbers of jewish girls. AEPhi is still there, but the two others have since closed. This is very sad because both had been there since the 1920s and one was a single-letter chapter. AEPhi does still fill a niche though and to this day, are not considered the bottom chapter.

I do need to comment that my school is very liberal, in the midwest and not considered competitive. In certain areas of the country or more conservative campuses, you will find what you described. Also, some 18-year olds as others have commented are very impressionable.

I think the Aephi at my daughter's school is considered "less desirable" simply because they are relatively new (3 years old at the school) and they don't have a house (at a school where 6 of the 10 sororities have gorgeous houses). They were (as I read here on GC), the only sorority this year to not make quota but they did take in 22 new beautiful girls. They are a traditionally Jewish sorority, which would definitely put off at least 75% of the girls rushing.

Please let me reiterate and apologize if what I wrote is unclear or misleading: In no way did I mean to imply that a house is bottom tier simply because of a possible religious affiliation. I was referencing houses in general: A through Z. My thesis was simply that many pnms drop out of rush simply because sorority A dropped them and then the pnm not giving the rest of the houses a chance because of a perceived secondary or worse status of other houses. I really wish that pnms could read and understand that they make their house/college years/sorority experience the best or worst that it could be. PeaceLoveClass's story tells it best. I hope that pnms find it, read it and then take it to heart.

UGH i HATE this...

i had a really good post and it got deleted twice (something about hitting the shift button?)

my point was that in joining a sorority (or any association) it's normal to want to be a part of the best/most popular. in an 18 year old's mind, those go hand in hand. but with age and maturity, we know that these two things are not necessarily related, or even necessary to make our greek experience the best.

is my sorority the best? surely! is it the most popular? probably not, nationally. on some campuses, perhaps.

also, a Jewish house (going with the example) may not fit the image of what a PNM expected growing up when considering greek life. i know that a historically African-America sorority wasn't on my radar initially, first because i didnt know they existed, but i also didn't (initially) have that image in my head when seeking greek life.

so for other PNMs showing up to campus and seeing orgs that dont fit what they expected (ie a Jewish house, or a houseless org, or a multicultural org, or perhaps co-ed or service org?*), yes, that can register as "bottom-tier" simply because its not on their radar.



*mind you i am totally lane-swerving and know nothing about recruitment stats on any of these orgs, but from what i read on GC, the numbers dont nearly touch an NPC social sorority with regular-type rush. plus i could be wrong on a lot of this, but im putting two and two together.

Thanks! :) It's also, for me, one of those "if only you had known then what you know now" types of things. I'm so glad that I got cut by my top choice. I mean, they're a great group of girls, but I'm not sure I would have felt as comfortable or gotten as involved, or even if I would have stuck with it.

texas*princess, I agree with everything you said 100 times over. Although I can't say I ever believed I was "too good" for my sorority, my deciding factor when I did my final rankings was which sorority was the most popular. I just got lucky that "fate" intervened and I ended up where I did.

I just wish more PNM's would understand that, like KSUViolet06 said, the only place that popularity matters is in college. My mom always quotes that passage about "100 years from now, it won't matter what car you drove, etc." I don't remember all of it, but my point is, even 10 years from now, it won't matter what "tier" you were in. A lot of my younger friends have gone through Rush in the last two years, and the only piece of advice I will ever give them is to NEVER cut a sorority based on their stereotype or their popularity.

KSU, you are one of my favorite posters, but I think I will have to respectively disagree with you here.

I do agree that in MOST places, the statements I quoted above are true... but there ARE some people and/or areas where people just plain don't grow up.

Even if they are 30 years out of college, tiers still matter in their mind either on a school basis or "overall" (e.g. "you don't want to be in THAT sorority! They aren't that big nationally, they only have X chapters and are mainly focused in (---certain geographical area here----)

I've seen plenty of those people here on GC and it amazes me, especially given that those people are alums from a super long time ago.

So in summary, I do agree with you that in a lot of places what you said is true. When we are late-20's or whatever no one gives a flying squirrel who was part of what and what "tier" they were in back in college, but if you are in one of those hard-core sorority regions it DOES matter b/c in their little bubble of the universe status is the only thing they care about.

So if ppl in :those: regions want to cut groups b/c they aren't "top tier" I can't say I have any sympathy for them not being matched.

KSUViolet06 and texas*princess,

Some of the wisest words I have ever read on this forum. I think it would be great if they could be stickied for all to read in future- along with the rest of this thread.

Tiers in fraternities and sororities at any campus are not so much about the organizations themselves, but rather about the composition of the members in those specific chapters.

In my experience, people who pledge "top tier" chapters knew it was going to happen. They were prepared for it well in advance- as were their mothers, and they did not need to come to a site like ours to ask advice on what to do. It is not universal. Top candidates sometimes slip through the cracks- but for the most part those who pledge "top tier" come into that realm for reasons that cannot be made up for at the last minute with grades, activities or other window dressing.

Members of top tier sororities are not superficial or snobbish by default in this situation- they are merely enjoying the Greek experience within their own social realm.

And members of second or below tier sororities are not inferior in any way as Greeks or as people.

However- anyone who goes through rush hoping for top tier choices and then drops out before rush ends because they did not get invites back to top tier houses and think they are too good for the invites they got- good riddance! They are NOT suitable for any chapter precisely because they have the wrong idea that pledging a "top tier" house will somehow confer on them some kind of special status and that they are too good to accept anything less.

Such people merely serve to validate the incorrect stereotypes about Greek life in general and they have no part among our number. To those who think they are too good for some chapters, rest assured at competitive campuses they do not need or want you. They can fill their roster with enthusiastic and eager members just as easily as the top tier chapters.

To address something both of you have touched upon- after college I do think tier status goes away in large measure. As long as the chapter was not awful, having "been there" will always be to one's credit.

That said, there are some who will cling to having been "top tier" for the rest of their lives, and especially if life after college does not bring the social prominence and wealth one was expecting. I am old enough now to have seen that come to pass with some "top tier" friends from high school and college- and it is just plain ugly.

But who cares about those people? They are in the same group as those who cling to having been a high school cheerleader or having won the 5th grade spelling bee even though they did nothing of note once that was over.

In the long run, being a part of a fraternity or sorority is a valuable and rewarding step in life, and the individual member will benefit only to the extent to which they learned from and enjoyed the experience. Even the low tier chapters can offer one chances to lead, organize and learn proper professional and social behavior.

Anyone who comes into the rush process disregarding all that in the interests of seeking to get some kind of "status" they never had (and never will have) deserves to be left behind. If nothing else, it will hopefully be a life lesson.

The Al Bundy disease. :D:D:D

My family attended a sports award banquet where one of my kids was being honored. The keynote speaker was a famous coach from a famous university. (How's that for not naming names?). The coach told all the kids to look around the room. Our athletes represented 1% of kids who started playing a sport at 7. Further he added that less than 1% of THESE kids would play their sport in college...and fewer than 1% of these kids would earn a living from their sport. The Coach then suggested that all the kids
look hard and develop their whole persons, not one defined as an athlete.

Same thing applies here: If you define yourself in college and beyond as a A *****, and nothing else you will be the loser who talks about their "glory" days. Hopefully the rest of the "team" or some will be around to support you, but only if the choices made were based on who you truly are.

And, I am in NO WAY desparaging those who get their first choice in the best house at the best university. I am not saying that one should suffer and go to a place where you may not fit in to be altruistic. What I am reiterating is simply this: To be part of a sisterhood (or brotherhood) is about finding people who will be your friends, share interests and celebrations...and yes difficult times...not just Prada bags and manicure time.