Rushing rules reg. females
 

I noticed a lot of people have been writing "bring hot girls with you when you rush" or talking about having a formal dinner with a sorority. These things would not be allowed by school's IFC bylaws which state that no FEMALE (other than the chapter's designated sweetheart(s)) may be present at any rush event. Having females at rush events can be penalized just like having alcohol.

I found my loophole.

"other than the chapter's designated sweetheart(s)"

You might want to do some research on that. Panhellenic has strict rules that would preclude the presence of sorority women at fraternity rush parties during formal recruitment, and preclude the presence of rushees at any fraternity parties- but I have never seen or heard of any IFC rule that females may not be present at fraternity rush events. And I sure as hell never attended any rush party without lots of ladies.

A rushee or active who can bring high caliber women to a party- and not just hot, but smart, interesting etc.- is saying a great deal to his credit that ladies are willing to associate with him and trust him to bring them to an event they would like and where they would have a good time.

You sit at home and plan your recruitment party with pizza and Coke watching a video from nationals if you want, but that is not how successful and ambitious people think.

And let me tell you that successful and ambitious rushees go on to become successful and ambitious brothers- and very financially successful alumni whose donations make it possible for fraternities to continue to exist.

PS- Many Universities/fraternities have banned "sweethearts". So the one thing you do think acceptable is actually the one thing that is widely discouraged.

Well my university recently made a stupid rule regarding Rush Week events: "no more than 17 women can attend no more than 2 rush week events."

So we can have 10 girls at Monday's event and 7 girls at Wednesday's event, or 17 at Monday's, etc- but if we have 10 Monday and 8 Tuesday, we get fined.

It's pretty ridiculous, and I think 17 is an odd/random number, but there are ways to "get around it."

If IFC actually enforces that rule wherever you attend college then I recommend a transfer.

we make sure that we have tons of girls at our rush parties throughout the summer, it reflects well on the house. I would never want to rush a house where I needed to bring a bunch of girls with me because the actives were a walking sausagefest.

Well I don't think any IFC can or tries to regulate parties throughout summer.

I think the OP was more referring to the events of the actual formal rush week.

This is similar to the laws that they made for our fraternities (except its no girls unless theyre sweethearts-usually ends up being 1 or 2 girls).

We have about 14 NIC fraternities and none of them seem to have a problem with this, maybe its because rush events are usually bowling, HOOTERS, baseball games, poker, etc. events where women are not the center of attention anyway. There is usually a party after bids where girls can come but thats only after bids.
I'm looking for the section of the IFC laws that states this but cant find it right now.

Funny that you said that, I was just talking to my son about some of the guys they just gave bids to. His comment about one was that he always brought a bunch of pretty girls with him to the house.

I guess that's what stood out the most and it helped him get a bid:rolleyes:

I hope that was not the only reason!:D

It sounds like this guy could be a short lived PNM!

Things called GPA, being active in the Chapter are more important to me and most of us!

I hope he was just laffing as much as I was in reading this!;)

He was just giving me a quick rundown of the new guys and that was the description for this one. I'm sure he brought more to the equation than that (at least I hope so). Or else you're right in that he might be short lived.:o

What do the rules say about having girls escort potentials to all of your rivals house making sure they come back to the right place in the end? :)

At Kentucky, there was no rule then, and I don't think there is one now. However, I don't think it could be implemented that well with out raising some eyebrows.

Currently, the fraternities invite a specific sorority chapter to come to their rush party for the night (i.e. ABCs on Monday, DEFs on Tuesday etc.). And some of UK's fraternities rush out of a specific sorority house. As such, it might seem odd to see a member of the ABC sorority hanging out at the DEF sorority house. Or a GH member at a party where the XYZ sorority were the special guests.

Now back in my day, sororities would go around from chapter to chapter showing off their pledge classes. So it wasn't unusual for a new ABC pledge to bring along a rushee to the next house. But often, is was an ABC active, who had ties to the chapter, to escort the rushee back to the house.

I just want to point out that just because *your* campus IFC (the general your/you) may not allow women at rush events, doesn't mean that on other campuses, women can not attend. Each campus is different and there are no NIC rules that govern women at IFC rush events.

Agreed. Every campus is slightly different. My daughter moved into her sorority house a week ago as they go through their month long process to do whatever it is they do to prep for rush. Until bid day, she said that Panhellenic rules prevent girls from any sorority appearing at any fraternity house for any reason.

Once sorority bid day ends, she'll probably drag a half dozen of her sorority sisters to camp out at her boyfriend's fraternity house and help them rush (their rush trails the sororities' rush by several weeks, which seems odd, but every campus is slightly different).

Our formal rush, that is the actual parties, are lady-free. However, the rush parties and so forth are packed full of the creatures.

We can have no more than ten women at any time at a rush event. Also, we're not allowed to have members of only one particular sorority at an event- if nine of the women are KD's, the tenth can't be. That's actually an improvement- in past years it was no more than five.

at fsu it is encouraged by panhellenic sororities to go out and support IFC rush. Every semester we have rush we have girls from various sororities there to not only look good but to give their opinion to the rushees that come around. Its never a bad thing when the two councils support each other.

I disagree. Rush is about guys. Its about talking to guys and meeting guys. Meeting girls is great and that comes later, but this is a time for the guys to meet the guys. Guys dont go to sorority recruitment, girls dont belong at fraternity recruitment.

Girls can be useful during fraternity recruitment. For the brothers, seeing how a rushee treats a female can be... informative. Also, having ladies present can takes away some from the "interview" feel of rush, making rushees more comfortable.

However, as I think i've said before, females at rush and rush-related events are most helpful when they're actually familar with the fraternity and/or the rushees, not a random sorority.

Yeah thats fine, maybe 2 or 3 sweethearts passing out snacks and meeting the rushees. Some people are telling other people to bring girls with them when they rush, bring lots of girls. Well theres no way that would even be allowed at my school because of the rules, but if theres 2 girls to every 1 guy at a rush event, hell that makes a great party, but a terrible mockery of a rush event.

"2 or 3 sweethearts passing out snacks"- nice! Good luck getting respectable and achievement-minded women to respect that viewpoint.

Rush is about a group of men showing potential members that their GLO is a place that winners want to be.

Intelligent, socially adept quality women being present at such events is the ultimate indication that a fraternity's membership are winners who are destined to do well in life- and that is what brings in top rushees. The women who attend fraternity rush events say more about the men of that fraternity than anything else.

And women like that are not going to whore themselves out to rushees or do the other kinds of things that you and- apparently some universities- assume is what happens when women attend rush events. A chapter that brings whores to parties is a bottom tier chapter of people who lack the social manners and skills to be winners- plain and simple. No university rule or feel-good rule about "rush is all about the guys" will ever change that doom.

Well bred and well raised men and women interact at social functions from their earliest days- starting with birthday parties, then etiquette or social training in school or through the local Junior League (at my school we all took ballroom training in 6th grade), then on to high school formals and proms- and then to college.

It makes no sense to suddenly break that up during fraternity rush.

Give me a good reason why there should not be ladies at rush parties- a GOOD reason.

If your reason is a fear of rape, promiscuity etc.- then save it. That just means you have the wrong guys and/or the wrong women in attendance.

Explain to me why quality women are a negative influence in fraternity rush.

PS- Please forgive my combative attitude on this. I have never heard of such a thing, though clearly from the posts it is policy at several schools. That may color my reading of the tone of your posts.

The presence of quality women is critical to us in rush for two reasons,

1. It is a chance to see how rushees behave around and treat women. This is one of the two big "tests".

2. Women who attend the parties give valuable feedback to the actives on who should or should not be pledged. It goes hand in hand with #1.

How a potential rushee treats women in a social setting is huge down here in the south. So the idea of restricting their presence is hard to understand outside of any formal rush rounds that are done at some schools.

Here are some of the many reasons why schools have chosen to adopt this policy.

1) Men arent allowed at sorority rush, why is it important to see how the men treat women, but now how women treat men?

2) Some people arent joining a fraternity to meet women. it's just not important to them. some people arent even attracted to women. This needs to be understood and respected.

3) Rush events shouldnt be parties. They shouldnt have alcohol (most schools have dry rush now anyway) and they shouldnt have women or dancing. Rush events should be things like batting cages, poker nights, or nfl screenings. Women are not necessary at these events.

Rush shouldn't be any of those things and I hope there aren't schools promoting that it should be. Rush should be guys having conversations with rushees and maybe a speaker. If some girls want to come hang out and wait for the party after official rush ends that's fine, but they don't have to be there for rush (and like the gimmicky parties, they may actually distract from the purpose of rush and make it difficult to have good conversations with rushees).

I guess the way I look at it, rushees already know that fraternities hang out with girls. In the cases of the better houses, they probably even know what groups of girls it is you hang out with. I don't see a real benefit to girls being at rush other than a house kind of making the statement "look, we hang out with great girls". And I think that should kind of already be a given, and at worst when a rushee asks about the houses social calendar, it isn't too hard to mention what houses you do a lot of stuff with and accomplish the same thing.

NIC doesn't have any rules for governing the presence of women at IFC chapter rush/recruitment events, but their "Basic 5" manual for IFC recruitment officers states that there should not be women at events as one of the extra guidelines for the Basic 5. So while they don't prohibit it, they ask chapters to consider why women at men's events are necessary.

I've always asked what the role of the women at the event is - if they are doing something that the men should be doing (i.e. serving snacks/drinks, talking to potential members, providing entertainment, selecting and/or voting on potential members), why aren't the male members of the organization doing it? I can understand having women present as "social icebreakers" but even that can be a questionable role.

And, let's face it, having women present can and probably will add to the liability for the fraternity. An example that potential male members may also do, but women add another risk of bringing alcohol into what should be dry recruitment.

I have never heard of any woman selecting or voting on any potential fraternity member - ever! Input, sure. But never the selection.

Gamma Phi Beta's rules (in accordance with NPC) forbid sorority women at fraternity recruitment parties.

Thank you for your considered reply. I think we will have to agree to disagree to an extent, but let me please offer the following replies to your specific numbered as you have numbered them.

1. Where formal recruitment exists for men, women are not present. But at many schools, formal recruitment is merely a formality. By the time formal recruitment comes around, rush is essentially over. This is the big difference between the men and women when it comes to rush- at least at the schools I am familiar with. For the women, rush is 100% formal and structured. For the men, rush is largely informal and by word-of-mouth/personal contact with the formal rush process having some partial degree of usefulness at the end of the real rush season.

2. This is a tricky one. Fraternities were founded as social organizations, and that obvious appeal continues today. As I said before, the importance of having quality women attend informal rush events (I will use the term informal to refer to any rush event outside of formal IFC recruitment times at a given school) is that it says something about the quality of the men of that chapter. It helps paint a broader picture of the men of the chapter from a social standpoint- which is the point of a fraternity (at least to me.)

As for respecting men who don't like girls by not having girls at parties- if a chapter wishes to pledge and initiate a homosexual, more power to them. Being gay should not be a barrier to someone joining a fraternity. However, there has to be some respect for the group as a whole. If a chapter of 100 is going to pledge 1 gay man, then that one pledge cannot reasonably expect the entire chapter to adjust their entire recruiting process or any other aspect of their existence to de-emphasize the primary drive of the vast majority of human beings to find someone of the opposite sex with which to procreate. Any man who is rushing and is gay, and thinks women at rush events is somehow disrespectful of his rights, is well advised to avoid Greek life altogether- and perhaps society at large as well. There is a big difference between tolerating direct discrimination versus expecting everyone else to modify their lives to enhance your personal comfort.

3. During formal rush, I would even eliminate some of the kinds of events you are talking about. That should be about sitting down with rushees one on one to talk- almost in a job interview setting. This is important since formal rush happens towards the end of the total rush picture and there is much less time to get to know someone and determine if they are a good fit.

As for informal rush, I think more dry events are a good idea- especially during those initial meeting points when you are seeing people for the first time. It is dangerous and foolish (as well as illegal) to have a party for a bunch of high schoolers you have never met and get them drunk.

Final question for you- what kind of dues do you guys pay and where do they go? At southern schools, dues can be very high- I paid $2,500 a semester back when I was an active 10 years ago- and most of that was for rush and social. And no, that does not cover alcohol. It was always BYOB. That money covered bands, renting out hotels, security, 3rd party servers etc.

Point being- fraternity life for guys like me was about social activities, and that is the only reason we spent that kind of money to be members. But I also know we have chapters where the dues are so low that 50-75% of the money covers funds sent to nationals- so clearly social calendars are not so important there. This difference can be driven by the nature of a given school as much as a given chapter.

I think that is where the disconnect on rush gets to in the end. And it is also the broader disconnect between many fraternities' chapters in different regions.

Is this something recent? The reason I ask is that has not always been the case at Kentucky. As of last year if I'm not mistaken. The UK Campus Panhellenic is very much "by the book" so I would be quite shocked if UK was willingly going to these parties against NPC rules.

And is Gamma Phi Beta's rule applied to the chapter as a whole? Could women - "on their own" - attend if invited. And how is is a fraternity rush party defined? Technically, IFC rush is 24/7. So any event that is "open" (Sigma Chi Derby Day, Greek Sing, Greek Week, Homecoming etc.) can be considered an IFC rush event.

I've seen it happen, it was directly admitted to me by a fraternity chapter when I was working at my last institution. They allowed the women who hung out regularly with the chapter to vote. Now, obviously, the response from headquarters was not supportive of the chapter's practice, but I've heard of it happening elsewhere.

Wow. Learn something new everyday.

Not recent as far as I know. But my Green Book isn't here at work so I can't check it. But then depends what you mean by recent.....:) And it's the chapter as a whole and individual members.

How about since the turn of the century? :D

As I recall, the week that rush starts (which is next week) some of the UK fraternity chapters' websites start to list which sorority chapter will be their guests on which night. And for every night of rush, there is a different sorority chapter. This was maybe no more than two years max.

A few more things.

Would this apply to the chapter sweetheart as well?

Also, what about open events like a band party. I'm thinking specifically of campuses with deferred rush. Or say Washington & Lee where every party is suppose to be open to the whole student population. But because rush is delayed, these are - and no doubt about it - rush events. I guess what I'm wondering is if a chapter is invited, does that make a difference. If the event isn't "tagged" as an official rush event - even though everyone knows it is - does that matter?

And one final question if I may. At UK, some of the un-housed and off-campus fraternities rush out of sorority houses. As I understand it, the sorority chapter does not "help" or "participate" at all. But since members live in the house, they might attend the parties. Would that too be a no-no?

Thanks.