Possible Hazing Alleged at Duke
 

Possible hazing at Duke; allegations are mentioned in news story

http://www.ncwanted.com/ncwanted_home/story/3355918/

Brief excerpts:

. . . Student Daniel Klufas, of Easton, Conn., and his family have hired a lawyer and private investigator since the incident.

. . . On April 25, Klufas said brothers in Alpha Delta Phi, the fraternity he was pledging, made him take off his clothes while they threw cold water on him, according to attorney, Stephan E. Seeger of Stamford, Conn.

. . . Klufas said the incident caused him to end up at Duke Hospital for treatment.

. . . Seeger said he met with Duke University officials on Friday. Larry Moneta, Duke University vice president for Student Affairs, said he could not confirm the meeting or provide any other information about the situation due to federal law.

Seeger and his client plan to file a complaint with the magistrate against a particular individual by Sunday. Seeger said the state statute allows people to bring complaints before a magistrate judge to determine probable cause.

. . . Klufas left Durham shortly after the incident. Seeger said university officials made arrangements to allow Klufas to finish his coursework. He was in Durham this weekend to take final exams to complete his freshman year at the university.

Klufas is still a Duke student but said he is unsure if he will return to the school next semester.

Boo freaking hoo.

I understand claims where the fraternity was actually doing something to harm the pledges, but this amounts to nothing more than taking a cold shower and it's a big jump to think the house could reasonably expect that anyone would be hurt by it. I assume he must have got pneumonia (that's the only feasible "injury" I can think of from having cold water thrown on you) and I don't really see them being able to prove that he caught an infectious disease because brothers tossed water on him.

crackerbarrel; i believe that somewhere here in rm is a thread or two that are very similar to this.
covered two different issues:
unknown or underlying medical conditions.
hypothermia.
and from what i saw on this very board, someone just died from pneumonia. just as one of my best friends mother did several ago.

so please hold off on your assumptions and defense of the actives until some more information comes out on this.

and we have recently had a thread that touched on us civil law as well. one can always say they have a case. after that, it is up to the court, the judge and perhaps a jury.

He said that it caused him to have a seizure and go into shock and hyperventilate. Maybe you should read the article before commenting about it.

and this part i truly hope that some one made an error in reading. if an error in the writing, the state legislature should be slapped around:
'Seeger said when Klufas tried to report the incident to Durham Police, officers told Klufas he stood to be arrested as well, because a state statute says that anyone who engages in hazing can be charged.

“It was confusing to me how anybody can say you can be charged in connection with your own hazing,” Seeger said. ' and if it was the cops, i hope ia is having a talk with them.
may need to spend some time looking up state law and campus rules.

added edit: a few other stories with some other information:
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/2935181
"Klufas said brothers in Alpha Delta Phi, the fraternity he was pledging, made him take off his clothes while they threw cold water on him, according to attorney, Stephan E. Seeger of Stamford, Conn.
“Somebody decides they are going to fix his shivering by pouring warm water on him. The warm water sends him into uncontrollable shivering and shock,” Seeger said.
Seeger said the combination of cold water followed by warm water meant Klufas had to be taken to the hospital.
“The behavior the evening of the hazing is at minimum … reckless behavior that caused life-threatening injuries to my client,” Seeger said."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05272008...ing_112696.htm

"Pledges, blindfolded and stripped to their underwear, were brought into a "very cold basement" in an off-campus Durham house, Seeger said.
Fraternity brothers "proceeded to pelt him [Klufas] with various food, sauces and very, very cold water for a prolonged period of time," Seeger said.
Klufas began "shivering uncontrollably . . . so one of the fraternity brothers decides that he's going to assist Klufas by pouring warm water on him for some time," the lawyer said. Klufas then went into hypothermic shock and was taken to Duke Hospital by members of the fraternity, Seeger said."

http://www.uwire.com/Article.aspx?id=986518
"Seeger said he is "looking forward" to a meeting with national Alpha Delt officials that is in the works. Alpha Delta Phi-which was formerly charted Sigma Alpha Epsilon-was expelled from the national SAE fraternity in 2002 after violations of risk management, including hazing. The expulsion automatically disaffiliated it from the University. The group affiliated with Alpha Delta Phi nationals in 2006."

^^^one does have to wonder if the past, prior acts perhaps left a seed or two behind? it has been known to happen.

I stick by my statements. I don't agree with throwing food at someone, but it just isn't reasonable to think that any harm is going to come from throwing water on someone. And I think it's stupid to condemn the fraternity for doing something that no reasonable person would expect to cause any harm.

To sit here going "OMG they threw cold water on him! How horrible! Etc., ect." is ridiculous.

I'm sorry to hear that the kid apparently had a preexisting medical condition which this aggravated, but if he didn't think to tell any one that it may happen or he didn't know it would happen himself, condemning someone for throwing water is sitting on a mighty damn high horse.

and it is because some people just do not stop to think, understand or think they know everything, about everyone, everywhere that we as glos get into trouble.

Water is nothing to be charged over. I could see if the brothers were like dunking him or something. But throwing cold water? If I personally had to go through just some cold water to become a part i'd be happy lol.
However, I wish the boy luck I hope he gets well soon. Its a shame his body reacted like that.

I actually kinda agree with crackerbarrell in that: Why the hell didn't the kid tell someone before his physical boundaries hit their peak? I would bet that whomever was allegedly hazed with him were just fine whenever he basically stroked out.

Cold water being thrown on someone shouldn't be the instigator of something that serious anyway, [I would think]. Otherwise, I've been hazing my friends here recently on a regular basis b/c its like 130 degrees in Missouri.

based only on what i read in all the stories and what i know about hyperemia and hypothermia, i would be of mind that the amount of water thrown was a bit more than a cup or two straight out of the tap. and unfortunately when hazing takes place, generally if one says stop, no one stops. and socialite, would you have made your comment if the story was death caused by possible hazing?
unfortunately, that happens as well. just read some of the other threads here. as for what happened here as well as what will happen down the road we are all just going to have to keep on eye on the news.

my previous post is in NO WAY excusing the complete and utter stupidity of the boys at Duke if they actually did this...

k-understand.

Actually, there are some people who get seizures just from listening to music. Not all music but a certain song will trigger a seizure for them. It's just an example of how we need to be aware of every possible situation that may arise when we do anything. Everyone should be able to decide if that risk if worth it for them, it shouldn't be decided for them by saying that they must do something or make them feel as if they have to. Pouring water on someone to, i don't know... whatever reason boys haze, I don't think is worth the risk of someone dying when I'm sure there are other ways to get the same results that are probably safer. Maybe the frat boys wont get erections from those alternate ways, but they are at least safer.

very true jessicaelaine. even some light colors, patterns & movements have been found to cause people problems.
and for those who seem to think that this (hazing) is the way to get to know a person, to bond with them, i have a story for ya.
a group of of about 12 people were in the tv room watching some event when one person suddenly had a seizure. scared everyone out of their minds. individual recoved and told everyone that they were ok and that they were sorry that they scared everyone and that they had not taken their anti-epilepsy medication. this person was not a pledge but a third year active member. and about half the other people in the room had known them since before high school. no one had a clue about the persons medical condition. i was there and still recall the situation real well.
and yes, we took them to the hospital for a check-up.

Oh wow I didn't know it was that sensitive...
I did have a friend a while back and she had what the doctors called 'mini-seizures' or seizures on a small scale, we would be talking and all of the sudden she would stare off into space and remember nothing about the conversation but it got to be fairly predictable after a while b/c I spent so much time with her... So I guess my assumptions about his disorder were based on false pretense that they could at some point become predictable as far as patterns go...

I can see your point, but at the same time, what context would the person have brought up his preexisting condition in (prior to the alleged hazing incident)? I doubt that is something that would come up in random conversation. And given that peer pressure would likely be involved in the incident, if the person had mentioned his condition during the incident, I wonder if that would be enough to make the alleged hazers stop or just make them do worse because they thought he was making up excuses to stop.

Tinia2 makes a great point - lots of people have medical, physical, emotional, mental or other underlying issues that may be triggered by a number of things. Why take the chance at triggering something in someone you likely do not know that well?

from the schools newspaper which for us here in greek chat may just be as close to the matter as we can get. while the story is short, the comment following it is rather interesting:
http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/m...-3398250.shtml
http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/m...-3376903.shtml
http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/m...-1468059.shtml
An editorial piece from school paper:
http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/m...-3376914.shtml

and two stories about the chapter and glo involved. note the comment about rm insurance.
http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/m...-2261075.shtml
http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/m...-2258827.shtml

Duke's hazing policy
http://judicial.studentaffairs.duke....st/hazing.html
http://greek.studentaffairs.duke.edu..._students.html

The interesting thing here for me, and what I take away from all of this is that this kid's condition could have probably been triggered by a team building exercise which wasn't hazing. Had that been the case, the chapter would likely be in the clear. Since this was probably a hazing activity, now the chapter has some serious liability issues.

Foreseeability probably wouldn't be much of a legal issue since the Plaintiff is probably pleading that this was negligence per se. In other words, if the injury occurred while the defendant was violating a statute or regulation, where the harm which occurred was the type the statute seeks to prevent, where the statute's purpose is safety, and that the plaintiff was within the zone of risk, then there's a presumption of negligence.

If the plaintiff here had simply been participating in some sort of a ropes course and had a similar incident, this'd be a completely different ball game.

Hmm, interesting point and I agree with you on that. I would hope that any sort of ropes course/team challenge type activities would have a trained facilitator who would ask participants to acknowledge and inform them about any preexisting conditions, and likely sign some sort of waiver. not that having acknowledgement of a condition or signing a waiver would help much in a hazing case, but a reputable challenge course would likely have liability coverage I'm sure.

They sound like real geniuses when they say something like that. But honestly if I'm looking for fair coverage of Greek related news, particularly negative news related to GLOs, the school newspaper is going to be one of the last places I look generally.

not going to argue that point with you; i have personally seen it cut both ways some times rather deeply. however it is right now just about the only direct source on this matter, unless you have another that you care to share with the rest of greek chat, that we have to look at. and as i posted before, we just have to keep an eye on the news for updates.

Looks as if the local cops may have made an error.
http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/m...-3376903.shtml
"Hazing is a misdemeanor in North Carolina. According to a state statute, anyone who engages in hazing can be charged, but a law passed in 2003 says indictments cannot be based on self-incriminating testimony.

When Klufas initially tried to report the incident to DPD, however, officers informed him that he could be arrested as well, Seeger said. "Regardless of what the statute says, my client did not haze himself. There was a line that was crossed," Seeger said.

Kammie Michael, public information officer and public relations coordinator for DPD, declined to comment on the likelihood that Klufas could be charged and said she could not remember the last time DPD had investigated allegations of hazing at Duke."

police also seem to have rather short memories: "In 2000, only Duke University and UC have reported sorority hazing incidents."

wow....this is...ridiculous........first of all...there is no higher reason...as to why you would strip a pledge and throw cold water on him..that doesn't build brotherly bonds...


second of all..the chances of this person dying because of some cold water...are slim to none......


...if he didn't want to be in that situation...he shouldn't have been there.....

this is why, in my opinion......hazing.....shouldn't be a legal issue at all

but rather one of common sense.....

when someone says hey...strip down and let me throw water on you.... unless i'm some kind of brain dead zombie who can't think for himself....then i'm gonna have to say no.....

if the activity...is still viewed as hazing..by some..but has a higher..purpose......i'm more likely to stay..but even then..i have the option to leave



people always say well they FORCE pledges to do this

they don't FORCE pledges to do a damn thing.......its a request...and at any time...that person has the right to say...no?


soooo ridiculous?

Just wondering, as you said in an earlier email, you have a fraternity consisting of 3 members. Your signature says:

Phi Delta Sigma Vice Presedent
Fall '08
Tgtbmamittob

Have you pledged/been a member of an incoming class? Are you an active with an existing pledge/new member class? Are you a pledge?

I just want to have an idea of where you are coming from when I read your posts. Your title and time frame is confusing me, as are your postings, when from what I read, you aren't a typical operating chapter (at a capacity of an executive board, in the very least).

Perhaps if people better stood your situation, they could better be able to respond to your posts. At the moment, they are kind of jibberish.