Can National Shut Down a Chapter Because of it's Racial Breakdown?
 

For the fraternities that cearly identify themselves as being for a particular race or religion, could the National Office legally shut down a chapter for having too many members who do not identify with the given race/religion?

What if the national constitution does not include anything regarding a Chapter being required to have a certain racial/religious breakdown in order to maintain its charter?

A little more information.

example: Our fraternity was founded to be a fraternity for left-handed red-heads. Our national is threatening to shut down our chapter because we only have 1 left-handed redhead and the rest of the chapter is right-handed brunettes and blonds.

Second the need more info thing.

One thing is that for sure is that if a GLO finds that a chapter has violated the GLO's non-discrimination policies (eg, rejecting an African-American on the basis of race alone), they can for sure yank the chapter's charter. But that can be really hard to prove. You can always say (as I have heard many say on this site) "Oh, Minority PNM just didn't mesh with our chapter." hmmmm.

It's also for sure that many national NIC and NPC GLOs did threaten to shut down chapters in the 60s because the chapters began accepting minority members. Sad but true. :( I do not know if they actually did shut down chapters for this reason but I assume that there is at least one or two cases, perhaps quite a few, where this did happen.

I can't think of any NIC/NPC GLO that would allow discrimination on the basis of race anymore. I have heard that some groups may still allow some discrimination in terms of religion (eg, only Christians or more broadly in some cases, people who believe in a higher power, can join this group), but I've never heard of a chapter being dechartered for that. I have heard anecdotal stuff (which I don't know if it's true) about individual members have their membership revoked for such reasons. Mostly in NIC fraternities. Never heard about that with NPCs.

On the other hand, I have heard of some complex situations with Jewish NPCs where they are allowed to accept non-Jewish members (I believe all the traditionally Jewish NPCs accept non-Jews into membership) and being encouraged to accept non-Jews by their nationals for various reasons, and the chapter vehemently wanting to remain an all-Jewish group. That can obviously cause tension between the national and the local chapter, but I've never heard of it coming to a point of dechartering or anything like that.

IIRC quite a few locals were founded or chapters switched allegiance to different GLO's for that reason.

It did, I remember reading an article about the case that happened in the 1960s. It happened up North or Midwest (can't remember where) but it was a chapter that lost its charter for bidding an African-American girl.

This is more of the case I think the OP was talking about, although I would guess it's more specifically Asian/Hispanic, rather than Jewish (although I guess it could be still).

Ah yeah, that's completely correct, I remember hearing that myself.

I really and truly believe that this is the flaw in the question.... I believe that even if the fraternity is "for" a particular culture or religion, I don't think any have discrimination clauses.

That said, I think that a chapter could be shut down not for having the "wrong" color or religion, but if that factor contributed to the chapter straying too far from the ideals of the fraternity.

If there was a mostly non-Black chapter of APhiA, I think our people would be fine with it. If they stopped having voter registration drives and refused to teach the history of the organization (which in itself is black history), then there would be a problem.

Agreed. I remember this specifically in discussing someone of the NIC fraternities that still explicitly identify themselves as Christian or as being for only those who believe in a higher power. It was never clear to me if these kinds of broad group identifications actually authorized chapters to reject atheists on the basis of being atheists. Even so, if that were a problem, it's something I would think the group would deal with on an individual basis with that member or chapter rather than just up and dechartering the chapter. Now, if the chapter were distributing atheistic literature or holding black sabbaths or something (lol), maybe then it would be a case for dechartering.

General question overall: Why would someone WANT (meaning truly desire) to be a part of group that has historically had institutionalized racism and bigotry as a part of its chapters... I'd be scared to attend a picnic and BBQ... What kind of "games" would they play?

At least with an NPHC org, someone will be playing dominoes or Bid Whist or spades and there might be an egg toss or potato sack race. But nothing involving hurting other people simply because they are of a different creed, race, ethnic group, whatever... I mean, I truly dislike egg tosses because I always get the crashed egg... LOL...

Not anymore, but it used to be where nationals used to be racist, but the individual chapters weren't. People would want to join that organization for the people there, not the nationals. I know we have gotten at least one chapter because of racist nationals in another org.

Wait... what?

I don't understand. Am I missing something?

Or do you think NIC fraternities go around beating up people because they're Black/Muslim/Jewish/Atheist/etc?

The important part of your statement is 1960's. The anti-discriminatory acts came into effect in the 70's or so.

DaffyKD

Hey, if the shoe fits... It's happened in the past, what makes you think it won't happen again? Don't be like the kids at Jena 6 having to deal with the nooses...

It may NOT be the entire organization, but "rogue chapters or members" who allow this craziness to continue.

The same can be said about the NPHC underground pledging. What else can be done? A whole slew of people being expelled from the organization because they cannot follow the National HQ agreed upon rules?

What is it that our International organization's espouse? Then why would we want to select members who seem to have a psychosis?

Not really.

By the early 1960s most national fraternities and sororities had eliminated these clauses. Some as early as 1950.

(source)

youz crazy

And some never had these clauses!

I know for a fact of a chapter that closed because they did not keep their jewish quota at a school where there are alot of jews, and greek life is composed largely of jews.

It turns out there was a bit of a misunderstanding between our National Office and our President. After speaking with the National Office myself, here is the issue (and my attempt to describe it while maintaing as much anonymity as possible):

To use the silly example from above. The organization was founded by a group of redheads because they were not accepted in other organizations. The organization prides itself on being a redheaded organization. Our chapter has a large proportion of blondes and brunnettes. Not a majority, but definitely a significant proportion.

National said the recent trend of an increasing proportion of non-redheads needs to stop, and it needs to stop now before it's too late. They said that we need to stop rushing non-redheads. If a non-redhead approaches us, and asks us to let them in because they "really want to be in a redheaded fraternity," then it's ok to let them in, but simply because the non-redhead likes all of us, wants to be friends with us for life, wants to build up the house, is of good character etc, that is not enough to let them in.

They said that at every other school, this is how they operate, and this is how the organization is meant to operate given how it was founded. They have determined that a change needs to be made in our chapter and either we're going to do it or they are. They said that if none of us is willing to be in the organization that the National office knows it to be, than they will kick us all out and form a new chapter at the school or simply leave the school void of a chapter. They're exact words, "I organized a chapter at your school before. What makes you think I can't do it again?"

The one question they wouldn't really answer is: Which is a better chapter: 100% redhead, but doesnt do ANYTHING to acknowledge the fact that they are members of the redheaded community, or a chapter that is 2/3 redhead but plays a very active role in promoting its readheadedness (and the non-redheads participate equally in such activities)?

In my (and others') opinion, we can be a redheaded organization without being 100% redhead. They claim that the number of non-redheads who truly want to be in a redheaded organization are so small that we shouldn't be opening our arms to non-redheads who appear to want to join for any reason other than "being in a redheaded organization." After being assured that the non-redheads were very good, quality members, they responded, "We're not a good person organization; we're a redheaded organization. If they're good people, then that's a bonus."

I hope this made some sense. It's very late (damn Olympics).

Oof. This is an extremely awkward situation. Especially if that threatening comment from your nationals is accurate. That's not very professional.

I completely agree with you that if your organization is still promoting red-headed equality and issues, and the values that your organization was founded upon, it seems totally OK that blondes and brunettes are joining. Hey, you're getting them to help with the red-headed equality cause too, which who knows, they might not have otherwise been.

At the same time maybe you should evaluate why the nationals is telling what they are telling you. If you are honest with yourself, is there something you could do to ensure that your org is sticking close to its values?

And also, when you say National Office, who do you mean? Was this just one person, or a grad consultant or something of that nature? I think you really need to talk to your chapter advisor, regional advisors, etc., and make sure that you are on the right track and interpreting what your nationals are telling you correctly. You chapter/regional advisors can be a great resource and backup for you here.

By National Office, I mean the Executive Vice President of the organization.

I was definitely thinking of consulting the Chapter Adviser, and I know our President spoke to several people lower down the totem pole in the National Office.

Definitely. Sounds like you're on the right track and I wish you good luck.

At the same time, you do need to consider and make sure you're fulfilling your GLO's mission 100%.

Wow.

Thank you, very much, for showing us your true side. You clearly have great disdain for NPC/NIC organizations. I can't believe you are okay with putting this on the internet and representing AKA like that.

Just to play devil's advocate, how do we not know that Achilles87 isn't talking about an NPHC group that is pledging too many Caucasians?

Well, we don't know, but I don't think any NPHC fraternity has an "Executive Vice President."

BUT IF HE WAS talking about an NPHC (and in Alpha, I can think of one chapter that seems to fit the description)...in fact, no matter the coordinating body, I suggest that he speaks to whomever on his campus is in charge of Greek life if they are being threatened with closure or recolonization.

My gut is telling me his fraternity just can't do what he's describing! It sounds wrong on a lot of levels.

To echo posters above me, if they are REALLY and TRULY fulfilling the "redhead" mission with a diverse chapter, then they need to speak to someone on campus.

At which point you tell your national office to fuck off, and begin to plan a break from the oganization. Your chapter comes before your national organization.

No it doesn't. Even if it did, they have come nowhere near that point.

That is the difference between the NPHC and NIC, from what I have seen NPHC is much more focused on the organization as a whole. I mean you see it in countless threads on here, people go their whole life wanting to be an Alpha, or a a Kappa, or whatever, and before they even go to that college and meet that chapter they already know which org they want.

Not to say thats a bad thing at all, but if this is NIC, then the person's first loyalty is towards his chapter brothers, not towards a national office that is telling them they havent rushed enough of a certain race/creed/whatever and is threatening to reorganize the chapter because of it.

To try and make even further sense of what I am saying, I am going to attempt an anecdote (I guess it could be considered an anecdote), but if it doesn't make sense bear with me. To this person, XYZ, his GLO, is his fraternity. They are who represent XYZ to that campus, they are a group of friends who share similar ideals. If the person who gave that group of friends help operating for years all of a sudden decides, well we don't like some of the people you are bringing into your group of friends, so stop letting people without redhair into your group, regardless of the fact that you like them and they contribute to the good name of the group, then what do you do?
Sorry for the run on sentence.

Oh, no. I totally understand what you mean. And I understand the sentiment behind it. There are plenty of collegiate chapters of the NPHC who believe their chapter comes first.

I just happen to believe that they are all incorrect and have missed the point of being in a national fraternity.

Just to reiterate, this is not an NPHC/NIC thing. This is a problem among many people who pledge anything.

Our disconnect may have much to do with me having graduated recently and still being young and full of piss and vinegar, in that case then.

I would love to continue this discussion but I am running late for a tee time.

If your chapter is stable as far as operations and numbers are concerned, and if you are still espousing the redhead focused causes the national org espouses, they shouldn't be able to shut you down. When you start changing ritual and having Blond is Beautiful day, though, then I could see where they'd have a gripe.

There are often differing opinions among members/alumnae/national councils of formerly all-redhead chapters as to how "red" they should stay. (Better Dead Than Not Red? LOL, showing my age there) Your EVP might have that as his PERSONAL point of view, it doesn't mean everyone else at your HQ or on your national council does.

I just wanted to mention that there actually is an organization devoted to redheads...it is called the Princeton Redhead Society. I don't think it is necessarily for left-handed ones. Sorry, as a natural redhead I just get really excited about redheaded stuff sometimes. :)

http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/11...ads/index.html

i done seen it all now.

LOL. My boyfriend is terrified he will sire Ginger Kids someday (his mom and grandma are redheads).

Ginger Babies
 

And I soooo wanted a little redhead! (My grandmother was a redhead) I got 3 blondes and a brunette.

Ha, I myself would love to have a redhead.

Aren't we quite judgmental today? Who are you to tell me how to be a member of my Sorority? Like, I love to tell you how to be a member of yours.

And for the record, it is NOT about any disdain for NPC/NIC organizations as I have helped numerous fraternities and sororities procure funds to support their activities at all my universities. And several greeks would specifically take my classes because I only judged them by their class performance and NOT by their letters... That's for real, just so you know a little about me.

So, please, work on your fabricated story on me a tad bit better, because really, what you truly know about me is bullshit! Okay, thanks.

Can National Shut Down a Chapter Because of it's Racial Breakdown?

No, but maybe Nationals should shut down a thread due to its horrific spelling error in the thread title.

Oy.....

I don't just think...I KNOW they are wrong. And I tell NPHCers who feel this way that they are lame all the time. :) We've actually had a discussion of this before.

I am forever FROM my chapter and close to my chapter Sorors. However, my lifetime commitment is to Delta and that extends to wherever Delta is--"everywhere."