Seattle to charge .20 for plastic/paper bags
 

On Monday, the Seattle City Council approved a 20-cent fee, starting in January, for each disposable paper or plastic bag used at grocery, drug and convenience stores.

While other U.S. cities have banned plastic bags, Seattle is believed to be the first to discourage use by charging a fee.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...rybags29m.html


Like other earth-friendly northwesterners, I recycle and do other stuff to minimize my impact on mother nature, but this bugs me. Seattle's mayor is a nanny.

That's kind of a bummer. I know that we re-use every single plastic bag for trash, in our small trash cans, in our cars, etc. If such a thing happens here, I will have to go buy bags just for my little trash cans.

Once you have re-used all of your little bags, you will have to either pay for new ones or buy and use those small "green" totes. Most of them are pretty small, so you'd have to get a bunch of them.

Something else mentioned in the article is recycling table scraps. What does that mean? Having a separate bag for food trash? We also re-use those little bags for that kind of trash and wrap it tight so it doesn't stink up the bigger garbage can. You can't put everything down a garbage disposal, so I would love to know what people are going to be doing with "table scaps".

Chicken bones, anyone?

We use the "green" totes that the grocery store sells for $0.90. Because they hold their shape, they actually hold a lot more -- maybe twice as much more -- than the plastic bags. And things don't get as smushed.

Composting.

But I agree with Peppy about the apparent nanny mentality.

I re-use all my little bags too, for trash in small wastebaskets and to take my lunch to work, so I will then have to purchase bags for that purpose. That does seem pretty silly.

I have been eying the reusable bags and am thinking about buying them but here are my two concerns. Maybe someone who uses them can help:

1) How do you launder them? After a bag has had raw meat in it, it's going to have to be washed. Do they hold up in the laundry? Can they be dried?

2) Where in the world do you put them while you shop? I figure I usually have about 20 grocery bags per shopping trip. If I buy 20 of those reusable bags, where do I put them while I'm filling my cart with groceries? If I put them in the cart, there's not room for the groceries or the groceries will end up on top of them. Maybe a special backpack for my bags? This is a logistical problem, for sure.

ETA: Just read MysticCat's post and have to note that even though you can fit twice as much in the reusable bags, you might not want to LIFT twice as much in one bag.. like, I don't want more than two half gallons of milk in one bag!

A lot of people are saying just what you did - they re-use the plastic bags to carry their lunch to work, pick up dog doo, line trash cans, etc. so now they will have to BUY the non-recyclable glad/hefty bags for those purposes.

They have also banned styrofoam containers starting in january, and come 2010 plastic to-go containers and plastic utensils.

Regarding the recycling of table scraps, I assume they mean composting. A lot of people do that here anyway, along with using rain barrells for watering plants. Even my office has a compost bin. The city just doesn't want people throwing away food in the garbage that is actually good for the earth. We also have yard waste recycling, so people can probably throw their table scraps in there if they don't want to have their own compost pile.

It has gotten very easy to recycle here now that all recyclable materials can go in one huge bin (no more sorting!), and most homes have just tiny garbage bins and big recycling cans as well as a yard waste can. Seattle has gone so far as to force single family homes to recycle, and soon fines will be imposed if the utility decides you're not recycling enough of your waste.

Seattle's mayor seems to believe the best way of forcing a change in behavior is to tax the "bad" behavior - in this case plastic and paper bags. I'm glad I only work in Seattle and live outside the city limits, because I'm sick of hearing him preach about "doing the right thing" and taking choice out of the people's hands on little things such as this when he has MUCH bigger problems he should be tending to.

Okay, I made the switch to the reusable bags that the grocery store sells. Like MC, the bags I purchased are square in shape and hold a TON of groceries. I am in my third trimester of pregnancy and find it much, much easier to carry these bags than any other kind. The weight just seems to distribute well.

I shop for myself, my husband and a toddler. I usually need 3-4 bags for a full cart of groceries. (I leave out milk, cokes, etc... it is just easier to carry those separate). Again, you can get so much more in these types of bags.

I also now carry the bags (which have the grocery store name on it!) everywhere I shop... Target, Lowe's, Babies R Us, etc. They are the best things ever.

As for meat... at my grocery store, they still wrap the meat in a plastic bag first, and then put it in the big bag.

I have been using these since last Dec, and have not had to wash them at all. They are all still completely clean.

As an aside.. I heard that the bags that I have were made from recycled plastic and plastic bags. Not sure if it is true, but feeling the texture, there could be something too that.

All in all, I give the bags an A+.

ETA: I just put the bags in the cart. Again, you will only need 3-4 for a ton of groceries and they fold down very well.

I have a general question - do you all have to pay for garbage/recycling? Our town doesn't do it; we pay a private company to haul our stuff away.

I know that they don't do composting, and my town has no public resources for it, so I should do some research on it. The image I have in my head is a stinky pile in someone's backyard with flies and bugs all over it. I know that you can buy manual "machines" and such, but those are a few hundred bucks.

Food garbage is one thing that I can't stand to handle. Cat litter, no problem. Food garbage - I can't even dump old stuff from the fridge. I make my husband do it. It makes me literally gag. Having to contain it and then haul it to a pile or bin in the backyard? Seriously, just the thought is a nightmare for me lol. :eek:

Ditto what Blondie said. Meat still gets wrapped in the smaller plastic bags (like the kind for vegetables). And I never put a gallon of milk in any bag, but I do lay 2-liter bottles of Coke in the bottoms of the bags. They really are much easier to carry than plastic bags, even when full.

I keep the bags in the back of my car and just put in them in the shopping cart when I go in the store. If I'm just buying a few things, then I carry one bag under my arm. The biggest challenge at first is just remembering to get them out of the car and take them in the store.

At least one store here discounts your grocery purchase for something like $0.05 for every reusable bag you provide.

As for poop bags for the dog, I get bio-degradable bags (made from corn starch) for that purpose at the pet store. If I'm out of those, I use the bag that the newspaper comes in.

So far, we really haven't had the problem of wishing we had plastic grocery bags to use for other purposes. (We usually have a handful of them around anyway.)

As for ree's other question, we have city garbage and recycling curbside collection once a week. We pay a monthly fee to the city for it along with the water bill. The city's solid waste services department also sells composting equipment at good prices. (An Earth Machine for $32 and a kitchen pail for $6.)

It doesn't have to be smelly at all. :D

I knit mesh bags out of cotton and they stretch pretty well. I've got a couple different sizes and styles and we really like them. I bought some new cotton last weekend to make a "manly" one for VandalShyster he can keep in his truck.

We have been hoarding the plastic bags because they've already been banned in San Francisco and the daycare at my church uses them for diapers so we're going to give them to my mom. We also use them in the bathroom trash, but twenty cents in kind of cheap, how about a nickel, the same discount they give you if you bring your own in anyway.

I recommend buying only 3-4 to start, until you see how many you need. These bags are a lot sturdier, so you can fill them. I often found the baggers wasted a lot of space in the plastic throw away bags so they didn't break.

Mystic Cat and I seem to have the same reusable bag routine (although when I'm running in for a few things, I just use the bag as my basket), so I don't have much more to add. However, I wanted to post a picture of the bags that I our local grocery store has...pardon the bass in the corner, the bags are mesh and very sturdy so one of the local fishing clubs uses them for their weigh-in bags and that was the only place I could find a picture.

http://i34.tinypic.com/33mna7r.jpg

Anyway I really like them, and I have 2 bags and that's usually enough for me, however I'm usually only shopping for myself.

They're selling these kind now too, but they're not as big and they look more prone to absorbing moisture to me, I haven't bothered with these ones.

http://i38.tinypic.com/6xt7xk.gif

If you do end up having to buy paper or plastic bags, instead of reusing them for trashcan liners you could always just bring them back to the store for your next grocery trip and reuse them that way.

I also use the reusable bags at the commissary and love them. I leave them in my trunk, along with my market bag (the large straw tote I use at the farmer's market). They are easy to carry, easily filled, and store well. I have 7 bags, but I think there's only been one or two trips where I've used all of them. I have washed them (handwash cycle w/ cold water) and they came out fine.

As for the idea of charging for the plastic bags, that idea is not completely foreign to me. They do it everywhere here in Germany. You HAVE to bring your own bags to the Aldi or get charged 5 cents of a euro for every plastic bag you use. But I can see how it's kind of dumb to charge, especially since a lot of people reuse/recycle them. I don't buy trashbags... I think it's dumb to literally put my money in the trash... and that's what I'd be doing if I lived in Seattle if I were forced to buy plastic bags. And .20 seems a little ludacrous.

Exactly. It always drove me crazy that the baggers would only put three or four things in a plastic bag. Our reusable bags have a piece of cardboard that goes in the bottom to provide structure -- makes it much easier to put more things in it.

My guess, AGDee, is that if you have about 20 plastic bags per grocery trip, you'd use about 5-8 of the reusable bags, tops.

FWIW, this is the bag we got from our grocery store:

http://www.earthsavvyshop.com/catalog/ESS20_large.jpg

You can order them from the manufacturer at 20 bags for $26, but the grocery store sells them for $0.99 each. They also sell thermal reusable bags for (I think) $2.99. I like these bags because they don't have a store logo on them.

I use the bags for garbage bags and cleaning the litter boxes.
I guess I need to remember to keep my Trader Joes canvas bags in the trunk

I did see a thermal bag for sale that we'll probably get for our frozen and/or refrigerated stuff if it is a warmer day or there's another errand involved. Or I could just bring the cooler if I planned ahead.

Those are the bags we get at the commissary for $.79. :) I use them as tote bags now.

I agree. Rather than a gradual development so that folks can get use to the changes, the "Seattle powers that be" forced this "do the right thing according to my logic or else I am going to have a mental breakdown" PW passive aggressive behavior. I am clueless as to why it has to be that way it is beyond my American cultural purview. :rolleyes:

I would probably tack on the canvas bags as an option so that folk remember to use them. The other issue is folks are made to forget everything when at the stoh.

And the big Costco type stohs will get more grocery shopping unless we are talking niche markets that places like QFC (Kroger) cannot really compete at least in Washington--'cuz I know in Allen, TX near Dallas there is a Super Kroger and Super Targets abound...

I have several of the shopping bags from different stores and I love them. I also like the looks that I get when I use my Kroger bag at Meijer or the Target one at Wal-Mart. Now its almost a game to use the competitors bag. I also have my AOII tote bag from college that I use to hold the other tote bags when I am shopping (and keep my trunk neat between grocery trips). It has a longer strap, so I can throw it over my shoulder and have plenty of room in the cart. Then when I bag the groceries I can use the AOII tote last.

My question is about the to go containers, if plastic and styrofoam is banned, how do you get take out?

Paper.

California is considering doing the same thing but at a minimum fee of 25 cents per bag. As I understand, local government would also be able to charge additional fee(s). The legislation is AB 2058, is currently in the Senate Appropriations Committee and is scheduled for a hearing on 8/4/08. The bill was originally written to include an equal fee for paper bags as well, but that part seems to have been deleted by amendment. If it becomes law, the effective date would be July 1, 2011.

I do almost all our grocery shopping at Target and use the big reusable bags that fold up into a nice square. I have three bags and can generally get all the groceries for the family (2 adults, 1 toddler) in two or three bags. Milk and other large items (boxes of diapers, sacks of potatoes, etc..) don't get put in a bag. If we buy meat it's either wrapped in plastic or I'll spray the bags down with an antimicrobial spray.

We do use the plastic bags for garbage liners, dog poop and diapers and my supply is very quickly dwindling. I wouldn't be opposed to having to buy small garbage bags, it's just more convenient to reuse the plastic grocery bags right now.

Tryin' to imagine my won ton soup in paper.. not seeing it!

^coated cardboard

I figured, since that was coated with plastic and usually had plastic lids that it wouldn't be allowed. I've never had a coated cardboard container (like a McDonald's cup) last for more than 24 hours either, they leak all over, from the bottom. Interesting challenges for those packaging engineers I guess, eh?

I do wish I had some engineering background.. the guy that gets the paper utensils right is going to be rich!

Well if it's for to go containers, you shouldn't need it for more than 24 hours. Course that creates the issue that I could reuse the plastic ones but the cardboard ones couldn't be recycled because of the coating! :rolleyes:

Has anyone heard that the reusable fabric bags cause more pollution and use more resources to produce than the plastic bags they replace? I heard that once and have been trying to figure out if it's true.

I believe there is such thing as utensils made out of soy and other sustainable things.

When I get soup at the store across the street, it's put in a paper cup.

My drink at lunch was in a "plastic" cup made from corn.

I guess we're just way behind here in Michigan. When you manufacture cars, the last thing you want people focusing on is being "green" <sigh>

On the upside, I did purchase 2 hot/cold thermal bags and 6 of the regular green bags today. They got most of my stuff into those but had some meat and a canteloupe in plastic. I probably need two more bags... one thermal for the meats and one regular. The kid did pack two of them way too heavy with canned goods, half gallons of milk and my daughter's Vitamin Water but those bags do go nicely over the shoulder so the heavy ones were easier to carry into the house than I thought they would be. So, I did my green good deed of the day!

Henry Ford actually made a whole car body out of soy once. They said it was stronger than steel in accident tests!
http://www.thesoydailyclub.com/MOS/M...nryfordDL1.cfm

I have bags from Ikea, Target, HEB and Kroger - my biggest problem is remembering to take them into the store.
I am planning to get some bags from www.africabags.org - as featured in The Crescent magazine (the founder is a Gamma Phi).

So do you think grocery sacks are going to become status symbols? Like.. Vera Bradley grocery bags, Coach, Dior? Hmmm...

I have 5 reusable bags so far and I love them. They hold so much more than the plastic. I too do not put gallon milk containers, 2liter bottles if I ever purchase them, 12 pack or 24 packs of soda, or any large paper product purchases. I'm getting out of using paper plates and using some inexpensive dishes that don't break. For our family of 5, we may need a couple more bags though. I keep them in the car in a visible place so I remember to take them with me. I'm still trying to remember them! I've heard of some people bringing their own leftover containers with them when they dine out. I also use the plastic bags for lining all the bathroom waste baskets. Guess I'll have to find something else....

I have re usable bags.... but I forget them 1/2 the time when I go to the grocery store ! :o I do feel the pain of not having plastic bags anymore for the other uses though as San Fran has banned their use (and all "to go" packaging must now be "green" )

I think it is a great idea to charge for plastic bags. Maybe this will FINALLY cut down on the waste that people don't seem to think twice about. I have about 6-8 green bags, but I usually find that I only need 4 or 5 for a large shopping trip. They are easier to carry than plastic bags (they don't cut into your hands and the weight distributes easy). In fact, many grocery stores will take a nickel off per bag that you use each time you use them. After continued use, the bags basically pay for themselves. So why not use them??

Also a lot of grocery stores have containers where you can recycle plastic bags.