LAW SCHOOL CAN BITE ME.
 

I am soo frustrated right now with the whole process and granted I'm only a sophomore but I'm the kind of person who freaks out easily about the near and up and coming future... I just recently decided that maybe I should go to law school and I just feel soooooo stupid every time I look at stats or take a Practice LSAT...

Granted I just decided this a couple of days ago but I feel like I could do well in law but so far I just feel more or less retarded...

Advice from any of you older/wiser crowd to put my nerves at ease?

I really hope your thread gets responses from greekchat attorneys or law students, or just plain ol' seasoned members. If it doesn't, I'll have to take you off of my troll suspicion list and classify you as a complete troll.

Ok; I'm going into my third year of school (a 4-year evening program), so here are my two cents. Also, I believe Shinerbock had a great post on the application process somewhere in this forum. You may want to look for it.

You mentioned that you "think you maybe" should go to law school. I would suggest that, before you go through all the trouble and cost of applying to school, you figure out whether you really want to do it. Law school is a ton of work, and a ton of money. Even for those of us who really want to do it, it can be frustrating at times, and make you want to pull your hair out. The application process can be annoying, but it's no match for the stress of finals (or, for taking the bar). You should think long and hard whether it's something you really want to do.

Now, if you do really want to do it, you need to first sit back and take a deep breath. The process is less annoying if you put a lot of thought into it. Unless you have the grades and are planning on going to a top-ranked school (like an Ivy, U of Chicago, University of Michigan, etc.), figure out where you'd want to practice when you graduate. You'll want to go to school in that geographic area, because once you get out of the top 20 or so, local connections become much more important.

Also, be very honest with yourself about where you would fit, numbers-wise. Your grades and LSAT scores are going to dictate where you'll be admitted. Some extracurriculars may help a bit in rounding out your profile, but the importance of your numbers can't be over-emphasized.

Now if your grades and LSAT scores aren't that good, it's not the end of the world. But, you also have to keep future job prospects in mind, and be VERY honest with yourself about your potential for good grades in law school. If you're at one of those top-20 schools, your grades aren't going to matter so much. Anywhere else, though, law school grades will make a big difference, for everything from law journal to jobs. No matter what you want to do, whether it be big law, government work, or public interest, they'll be looking for people with good grades. The general idea is, as you get into T2 and T3 schools, you're going to need higher grades, and higher class rank, to compete in the job market. Also, it will be more important that you've chosen a school with local connections.

As I said, I'm in my third year, and I couldn't be happier with the decision I made. I'm in an evening program at a school that's well-respected in the northeast, I've gotten good grades, and I'm a member of a law journal. It's very tough, and it's a whole lot of work, but I'm working to my goal of being an attorney. Any trouble with the application process was well worth it in the results I've seen in my education. If it's something you truly want to do, then I wish you the best of luck.

Socialite, i second everything in KSig's post. I just graduated in May and I've gotta agree with KSig, you REALLY have to decide for yourself if being an attorney is something you really really want. There were a number of times during my first year that I considered droppng out b/c of the stress, etc. But being a lawyer is something i've wanted since I was little so that kept my motivation up.

I also want to point out not to be stressed that you didnt do so hot on some pre-LSAT exams. It doesn't mean you are retarded and can't do it. All it takes is practice practice practice and learning the tricks to taking the test.
Once you decide that law school is REALLY where you want to be, i would recommend taking an LSAT course like Kaplan or whatever. I remember when i took my first practice LSAT I got a 140....and I too felt pretty retarded. But after practicing a million of those things and taking an LSAT course I ended up with a 165 so i can't complain. Also, bear in mind, even if you don't do the greatest on the LSAT doesnt mean you're going to totally bomb in law school. The dude that ranked first in my graduating class had an LSAT score of 151, so there ya go.

Geesh...you won't be a very functional human being then.

My advice:

It's a very good idea to start early. When I wanted to go to law school, I did the pre-law thing and worked at a law school. I got to schmoooze with law folk and take practice LSATS. It was fun stuff at the time but I decided before I graduated that my heart and mind were elsewhere that I found more interesting. :)

Remember that law school isn't for those without a degree of patience, diligence, determination, and logic. It isn't so much about being "smart." Plus, there are graduate degrees that let you exercise your love of certain aspects of the law without law school, if that's your desire.

Since you're starting so early, you have time to feel your way through, get frustrated and take a break, and then get right back on it. But don't get frustrated and give up completely, youngin. Your "youth" is supposed to give you energy and an ability to be optimistic about your future. :)

Don't go, it's a terrible idea!

Ditto almost everything that has been said.

I would add two other comments:

First, I would avoid majoring in pre-law or the like. Majoring in pre-law does nothing but prepare you for law school, and in my experience and from my conversations with law school administrators, law schools consider pre-law majors a dime a dozen. Besides, law schools want to be the ones to teach you about the law. Major in something you really enjoy (which will likely yield better grades with less stress) and that will give you something to fall back on if law school doesn't pan out or if you decide against it. It may also provide some student body diversity that law school admissions people are looking for. (I had quite a few tell me that my major in music was considered a big plus for me.)

Second, learn how not to be "the kind of person who freaks out easily about the near and up and coming future." Seriously! If you don't, law school and practicing law will be unbearable.

And one other thing -- drop the word "retarded" from your vocabulary. It doesn't impress.

Are you implying my advice was not sound? :(

Good advice and this also depends on what your college/university considers "pre-law." Some pre-law programs are by name only and are really just a mixture of courses from different departments that seem "lawish." They really don't prepare for law school.

I found that a lot of students are able to enjoy the "lawish" types of programs because they end up settling into a department that they love. Then this prepares many of them for graduate school, if they don't want to go to law school.

Now, why would you assume that your very apt post was the reason for my "almost"? Your advice was quite sound. ;)

I will be starting Law School in the fall, and would suggest you find the book Law School Confidential (it was suggested by a 3L to me and has been helpful in the entire process). Read it cover to cover, and pay close attention to the first section called "So you wanna be a lawyer..." After reading this book you might have a better idea if law school is really for you.

WOW! I didn't expect the flood! But this is awesome thank you so much guys/gals!

I'm actually a psychology major for those of you who pointed out that a dif. major is important...
I have alot to think about based on all of this, like whether or not I'm going into law because I want to be an attorney or whether or not I'm going into law to roll in the money...
I used to work in a law office as a legal investigator (which is like french for gopher) =D but I got a good feel because I attended many things such as meetings and court-dates with my boss and I know I could excell in the courtroom...
From reading this though the question is whether or not I have the gahones to do all the work it takes to make it out of law school alive...

Once again thanks for all the responses it was a pleasant surprise!

My apologys, I did not mean to offend.

Not to harp on this response, but your statement may be a clue to your final answer. Law school is a lot of work, don't get me wrong, but in my experience most of the successful attorneys are ones who put in a TON of hours at the office, doing high-pressure work, whether it be corporate, public interest, government, or whatever. The attorneys I know work a lot, and have a lot of stresses in their professional lives. It's really their love of the work that helps them enjoy the profession.

That's not even mentioning the time involved in studying for the bar exam, which is a full-time job on its own. Getting through law school is just the start.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it; I don't know you and I don't know how you really feel, beyond your posts on a message board. I'm just saying that you should think very hard before investing your time, money and emotions into the process.

I understand what you're saying, well put...
I believe a wise man once said 'everything worth having is worth working for'

This is a very good question to ask yourself. Most lawyers make a comfortable living. Not all lawyers "roll in the money." A lot depends on where you live and what kind of practice you have.
I'm going to disagree with this just a little. I think it depends on what you mean by "successful." If you mean "making the most money," then you're probably right (except you should remove public interest and government lawyers from your list -- they'll rarely make as much in those sectors as they could in private or corporate practice). If you mean quality of life -- family, outside interests, etc. -- then I'd say maybe, maybe not. After 20+ years of practice, I've seen way too many "successful lawyers" who lament missing big chunks of their kids' lives or who are looking at serious burnout. It's kind of like the old saw -- nobody ever uttered the last words "I wish I'd spent more time at the office."

Don't get me wrong -- I know plenty of lawyers who love the "tons of hours at the office" life and don't regret it all, and who have happy family and personal lives. But I also know many who are looking to "escape" private practice for what they see as a more balanced life. (I've also known my fair share of wives -- almost always wives -- who want their husbands to get out of the jobs that require so much time at the office and who really resent that he's not there for meals, for bedtimes, for soccer games, etc.) Again, a lot can depend on where you are and what kind of practice you have.

The important thing is for a lawyer to decide for him- or herself what "success" means and then go for it . . . even if it means making less money.

Near the end of my sophomore year of college, I also decided that I wanted to go to law school (after dreading the fact that I spent 2 years thinking I wanted to be an engineer). I changed my major to political science, and I took a few upper-level classes that were law-based… American Judicial Behavior, Constitutional Law, International Law and Organizations, etc. Near the end of my undergraduate studies I took the LSAT. Was it long and painful? Yes. But I got through it and I did well.

I knew that I had to get a job following graduation, and I attempted to find a position as a paralegal. It didn’t work out so well. I then decided to go back to school for a paralegal certificate at Northeastern University. The course was a lot of hours (ranging from 6 to 14 hours per week, not including time for homework), but it was only over a period of a few summer months. I received the certificate with a 4.0 for the course. I knew that law is what I wanted to be involved with, and I figured this was a good start for me. I planned that sometime over the next year or two I would start law school and take night classes.

I then started working as a paralegal. I love it. But sometimes I look at some of the lawyers and they seem extremely stressed. I understand that comes with the job, but I don’t know if that’s what I want to deal with on a daily basis. I enjoy where I am, and I have a lot of room for growth in this career. Quite honestly, in the firm I work for, I sometimes feel that I have a better understanding for some of the cases because I work so extensively on them, while the attorneys have to constantly be reminded of the details because they work on so many cases each day.

Some people know that it’s what they want to do, and that may be you. But don’t jump into it so quickly without first knowing what you’re getting yourself into. Many law students find halfway in that it’s not where they want to be. Some actually graduate law school and find that the real world experience is completely different from what and how they were taught in school. And some make incorrect assumptions that the profession is as glamorous as it’s portrayed in movies and on tv.

My suggestion to you is to step back and analyze your current situation. Find out what kind of person you are and what you’re truly interested in. You just started this endeavor toward entering law school. Why are you stressed? You took a practice LSAT and didn’t do well. I didn’t either my first time. Many people don’t. Some people study and practice for a year before they make their first attempt at taking the test. As I’ve said, law can be a high stress practice. Will you be able to handle that if you’re already overwhelmed with tests and applications?

Another suggestion is to write to law schools and ask if there are current students or alumni you can contact to inquire about their situations and experiences. Also consider writing to attorneys in the surrounding community asking them about their positions and the advantages and disadvantages in the profession. This would also be a good measure if you were looking to decide what type of law you think you would like to eventually like to practice.

Yeah..I've been thinking about law school as well. What is considered a good LSAT score for a T1 school? I took a practice one and got a 164, and have been studying since then with a prep book.

What kinds of scores do you need for a T1 school? What about GPA? What is more important, a good GPA or a good LSAT score?

Also: I heard that if you take the LSAT twice, they average the scores instead of replacing. Is this true?

:) Thanks!

Most schools do not average the scores anymore (at least when I took it because they changed it). A good place to start is look at the websites of the schools you want to attend. They will post what their mean LSAT and GPA. The GPA, LSAT and personal statement are weighted differently at either school but for T1 if they are not stellar then you are going to have problems.

Geez. If you can't get through the LSAT, how are you going to get through three years of law school and the Bar? Calm down and follow some of the advice that was given here from fellow attorneys, lawyers, law students, and fellow intelligent GCers.

Yes, it's great to start "early". But no one is going to take you seriously if you continue to approach a possible career in law (or anything else, for that matter), so haphazardly. My thoughts:

1. If you are freaking out this much about something that you just "decided" a few days ago, then you really need to reassess the matter by which reach any major decision in your life. If you have done your due diligience, you would have a better idea of what to expect in terms of skills you need to develop, typical learning curves, and the lifelong commitment practicing law entails. Once your pass the bar, your studies do not end.

It goes without saying that if you are willing to give up after just a few days pretty much shows that you haven't put much thought into it.

2. "Law school can bite my ass". This does not sound like something that someone who truly respects the field or law would say. A legitimate law candidate understands and accepts the time and cost of education, skills development, open mindedness for multiple thought processes and personal growth that goes into preparing for, passing and succeeding in each step of his/her studies and career.

3. After taking one or two practice tests, you are so willing to give up, then please do. No one is going to offer advice or pity to you simply because you are casually entertaining taking on something that takes intense dedication.

It sounds to me like it's time to start taking yourself seriously, ask yourself what you really want in life, and see where or if pursuing law (not everyone makes it) is a path you want to consider. I also suggest following the advice of those professionals here who have been through the law school process.

If you are serious, I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks for the crude advice... I assure you I needed it...

You're right and after reading that post I decided to do more research on something other than the internet and from personal experience...

I went to a bookstore and skimmed books for about an hour and found a book called "Going to Law School?", it is very interesting and exactly what i needed to put my mind at ease, it even had a little personality aptitude test to see if you could fit the profile of a successful law student =D... not that I'm putting any faith in it but it was interesting no less... but it does have a step by step guide of what happens at a normal law school which is what i was looking for

The truth is my biggest fear is the future so my seemingly crazed nutso rant is really just me scared out of my mind at me failing miserable in a life long commitment because i have a problem with nitpicking every possible detail and deciding what could happen if I went down that path. Unfortunately most of those paths are failure as with any other field. I'm really not crazy, i just worry about different things than most people. Once again thank you so much for all of your help! Its all very appreciated.

I meant more in the sense that they are best able to serve the interests of their clients, not necessarily in a monetary sense. I think I went a bit overboard in my response to socialite's post; I was mainly trying to stress that, while law school is a lot of hard work, so is the practice of law.

Agreed, and I see your point on serving your clients. I was probably still reacting to the OP questioning whether she just was interested in rolling in the dough -- that plus I'm getting to the age where I've just seen too many friends who are good lawyers hit burnout (or worse) and too many marriages suffer or fail because of work.

It really depends on your GPA, where you went undergrad, and the school where you're applying. A 164 is a good score, so if your GPA is good, and you went to a solid undergrad, you're on the right track. I'm at a school on the back end of T1, and a 164 would have put you in good position.

That said - you really should check the stats on the school website, as well as on the LSAC site. Like DoubleDTG said, each school will weigh GPA and LSAT scores differently. Generally, though, you should be strong in both areas, especially if you're looking T1.

Also - if anyone is thinking of applying to law school and has any specific questions, you can certainly send me a PM. I've answered questions before for posters and tried to give good advice.

Come, come, now. You and I both know this is a lie. You and I both know you do not plan on going to lawschool. I read your post in another closed thread about you rolling up your sleeves....like you're really going to do something. See, it's comments like these that tell me YOU ARE A TROLL. You've just wasted professional attorneys and hard working law students time. You said it yourself. You weren't expecting so many responses. Why is that?

I'm watching you.

Please do not feed the troll. This one seems mild, but may bite.